0.10.4 Patch Notes

Solutions: Remove the +50% IIQ per person in a party if they are below a certain lvl of the highest lvl char in the group. OFC this won't help if that person has 5 chars that's above lvl 66 and one really nice char that's doing the work.
But I guess that's taking away many of the "boss multiboxers" since they need to lvl up quite high. GGG could maybe work out on bosses specially that if you want loot - you need to hit the boss. It's just what it is like now with the range thing but it's only the "hit" that's counted instead.

"

Trancemaster wrote:

Solutions: Remove the +50% IIQ per person in a party if they are below a certain lvl of the highest lvl char in the group. OFC this won't help if that person has 5 chars that's above lvl 66 and one really nice char that's doing the work.
But I guess that's taking away many of the "boss multiboxers" since they need to lvl up quite high. GGG could maybe work out on bosses specially that if you want loot - you need to hit the boss. It's just what it is like now with the range thing but it's only the "hit" that's counted instead.

Or remove all IIQ from partying.
Or implement a /players 6.

I dont want the hassle of groups, i dont like grouping.
I just want the same benefits as group play when i solo.
Is that so wrong?

/players x is broken for the same reason multi boxing is broken. Party drop rates are balanced around loot competition. Control all of the alts / proxies and you receive full iiq benefit without the competition. So. . .

"

Planetsurvival wrote:

I dont want the hassle of groups, i dont like grouping.
I just want the same benefits as group play when i solo.
Is that so wrong?

. . . If you want the full benefit of group play without having to join a group, /players x would have to make loot randomly "disappear" over time. Otherwise you're gaining way more benefit than grouping.

"

CanHasPants wrote:

/players x is broken for the same reason multi boxing is broken. Party drop rates are balanced around loot competition. Control all of the alts / proxies and you receive full iiq benefit without the competition. So. . .

"

Planetsurvival wrote:

I dont want the hassle of groups, i dont like grouping.
I just want the same benefits as group play when i solo.
Is that so wrong?

. . . If you want the full benefit of group play without having to join a group, /players x would have to make loot randomly "disappear" over time. Otherwise you're gaining way more benefit than grouping.

Ive done math on droprates.
Its not that big of an increase in some cases.

And how does it hurt you and your *fun* if i play My way and have my *fun*.
Oh and guess why people solo?
Because of griefing and ninja-looting.

Math on drops:

LootUnitDropped = 1 for 1 player with 100% IIQ.
(((IIQ%/100)*(1/Players))*(DPS%VSSolo/EnemyHP%))*((100-TimespentRunning%)/100)

Solo with 100% IIQ and 50% running time:
(((100/100)*(1/1))*(100/100))*((100-50)/100)=0.5 LootUnitsDropped


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Party with no IIQ from gear (IIQ was nerfed recently too, apparently it applied multiple times):
(grind party with 600% DPS and 50% spent running).
0,5 Loot units for each player.

*Casual* Party with 400% DPS and no IIQ and 75% time spent running:
0,16 LootUnits for each player.

Party with 1 IIQ hoarder (400% IIQ) and 5 DPS (500% DPS) and 50% runnning time:
0.89 loot units for each player.

Party with 1 IIQ Hoarder (200% IIQ) and 5 *casuals* (250% DPS) and 75% running time:
0,16


---------------------------------
Solo with no extra IIQ and *players /6* or multiloading with 50% running time:
0,5 Loot units for the player.

Solo with bad gear (75% time spent running to accomodate for lacking dps) and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on normal::
0.25 Loot units for each player.

Solo with bad gear (75% running time) and 200% IIQ and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on normal::
0.39 loot units for the player.

Solo with 200% IIQ gear and good gear to give DPS (50% running time) and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on merciless:
0,78 lootUnits for the player.

Solo with 400% IIQ gear and good DPS (50% Running time) and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on normal:
1.07 LootUnits for each player.

Soloing with 400% IIQ and decent DPS (75% running time) and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on merciless:
0.53 Loot units for the player.

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Now unless my math is flawed i can make the following conclusion:
Soloing with 400% IIQ gear and 50% running time and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on normal, is the most effective way to gain loot.
Its 20% better then casual parties with a dedicated 400% IIQ last striker and good dps for the rest.
Its 668% better then a no IIQ and mediocre geared casual party.
Its 428% better then a solo grinding with no IIQ and no Players /6 or multiloading.
Its 200% better then Soloing with 400% IIQ and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on merciless.

So now to make conclusions:

For just farming items for recepies:
1:
Solo with 400% IIQ gear and good DPS 50% Running time and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on normal:
1.07 LootUnits for each player.
(might be 2x-3x more loot depending on HP of enemies on normal, the speed of each *farming run* is increased.)

2:
Solo with 200% IIQ gear and good gear to give DPS (50% running time) and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on normal:
0,78 lootUnits for the player.
(might be 2x-3x more loot depending on HP of enemies on normal, the speed of each *farming run* is increased.)

----------------------------------

For boss farming in merciless:
1:
Solo with 400% IIQ gear and good DPS 50% Running time and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on merciless:
1.07 LootUnits for each player.

2:
Party with 1 IIQ hoarder (400% IIQ) and 5 DPS (500% DPS) and 50% runnning time and using maps without IIQ increase on them:
0.89 loot units for each player.

3:
Solo with 200% IIQ gear and good gear to have good DPS (50% running time) and /players 6 or multi-loading and farming merveil/Vaal/the ledge on merciless:
0,78 lootUnits for the player.



Solo with players /6 or Multi-loading:
No need to group with badly designed grouping system.
Freedom to leave to eat and such things without interupting other players.
Risk of loosing XP on death is high due to not having other party members to spread the damage taken.

Grouping:
Synergy between skills is increased.
Spreading the damage taken reduces the amounts of deaths.
Needs co-ordination and people dedictated and smart enough to maximize gear efficiency.
Needs people that trust eachother and knows eachother.

Factors to consider:
Psychological loot-splosion factor, bigger loot drop = happier player.
Minimize time spent running from enemy group to enemy group.
Maximize DPS while considering defence and IIQ aswell.
Risk factors of area one farms in.
Penalty for being overleveled in an area.

"

CanHasPants wrote:

/players x is broken for the same reason multi boxing is broken. Party drop rates are balanced around loot competition. Control all of the alts / proxies and you receive full iiq benefit without the competition. So. . .

"

Planetsurvival wrote:

I dont want the hassle of groups, i dont like grouping.
I just want the same benefits as group play when i solo.
Is that so wrong?

. . . If you want the full benefit of group play without having to join a group, /players x would have to make loot randomly "disappear" over time. Otherwise you're gaining way more benefit than grouping.

Ummm... there is nothing balanced about parties. 1-2 people killing stuff while 4 scrubs try to hoover the loot? Fun.

I played with 2 alts alt-tabbed farming Feelshrine, because that's all my computer can handle, just have a chance to get actual good itens for my level instead of killing Vaal/Merveil on normal over and over just to make the Orb of Chance recipe which ,ironically, the ones that did it will still keep doing with ease, and flooding the market with Chance orbs.

While the guys that couldn't withstand going through the hassle of party playing, and reccurred to farming for good gears with alts on Ledge/Feelshrine, got destroyed by this patch.

If you, like me, got affected by this patch, just stop playing. Either they will fix it and turn it back to the way it was and find another solution to stop the actual multiboxers, or you will eventually move on and find another game to play.

=)

"

b15h09 wrote:

"

CanHasPants wrote:

/players x is broken for the same reason multi boxing is broken. Party drop rates are balanced around loot competition. Control all of the alts / proxies and you receive full iiq benefit without the competition. So. . .

"

Planetsurvival wrote:

I dont want the hassle of groups, i dont like grouping.
I just want the same benefits as group play when i solo.
Is that so wrong?

. . . If you want the full benefit of group play without having to join a group, /players x would have to make loot randomly "disappear" over time. Otherwise you're gaining way more benefit than grouping.

Ummm... there is nothing balanced about parties. 1-2 people killing stuff while 4 scrubs try to hoover the loot? Fun.

+1


and do I need to remind you why they implement all this 1 screen limitation thing and add the new armor skill gem??

"

DalaiLama wrote:

"

Zestro wrote:

You don't get it, I know the diamond supporter who brought this multi-boxing issue up with Chris, I can even ask him for the skype conversation. This patch wasn't suppose to happen for awhile but Chris pushed it out faster cause of the conversation with 1 Diamond Supporter via Skype.


Chris knows who I'm talking about, I'm not going to name anyone but I think it's bullshit that this is how patches work.

It wasn't just one person's commentary that brought about this change. I saw enough multiboxing discussion that I expected it to become the next locked thread topic right behind the infamous loot thread.

GGG has done one thing consistently the whole time I've played POE. That's attempt to balance the game by limiting things that are OP (or buff underpowered) and still try not to ruin the fun of whatever it is that they are nerfing/altering.

Rearranging, adding and removing nodes and paths from the skill tree for example.

Avatar of Fire, Discharge, Poison Arrow, Fire Trap, Chaos Immunity nerfs for example. Nerfing bow damage, removing phase run, removing weapon added elemental dmg from Facebreaker utility, etc.

Multiboxing was just a little too productive. The number of chaos/gcp/exalted being asked for and paid for items was a big red warning sign the size of Texas that multiboxing was well on its way towards ruining the economy.

The chaos recipe nerf patch that preceded this is another good example.

People can still multibox, they will just have to ensure their extra characters stay alive during the battle to get the maximum quantity boost.

Left alone, multiboxing might have made trading obsolete for the large percentage who don't/can't multibox. I'm not the jealous type and I don't begrudge someone with a faster machine being able to run more than 1 character at a time.

I do see where that advantage is frowned upon by others. GGG has stated they are not interested in POE being pay to win. Multiboxing isn't paying GGG to win, but it is in a similar vein.

As a non-multiboxer, this change will slightly harm me in that less low level slightly desirable uniques will be available for trade. (which I find far more useful and enjoyable than the high level ones) On the plus side, prices will start to come down over time as chaos + orbs become more valuable again. In the long run, I think it will be a win for everyone.

As for one Diamond supporter changing the course of events, there are also Diamond supporters on the other side- those who do multibox and talk about it in their posts. Stop and think about it for a second. If you have the financial resources to be able to support GGG with $1,000 then you probably have the financial resources to own a very good computer capable of multiboxing. If you can't afford a computer capable of multiboxing, the chances are slim that you can afford to support GGG with $1,000.

So, please don't assume it was one conversation with one person that did it. The straw that broke the camel's back wasn't the only straw.

This! I Read through 17 pages of comments, and finally I find a comment that I feel is worthy, that doesn't argue nonsense.
It's a very interesting discussion, but I feel I've read my share of pages and do not wish to read the rest of the thread right now.

I just get so mad when people whine about the drops. The drops are random, the drops are low, using 6 accounts to boost 1 is imba. Get. Over. It.

All I see is a lot of mad multiboxers and all I feel is relief that the economy won't suffer from it any longer.

"

CanHasPants wrote:

/players x is broken for the same reason multi boxing is broken. Party drop rates are balanced around loot competition. Control all of the alts / proxies and you receive full iiq benefit without the competition. So. . .

"

Planetsurvival wrote:

I dont want the hassle of groups, i dont like grouping.
I just want the same benefits as group play when i solo.
Is that so wrong?

. . . If you want the full benefit of group play without having to join a group, /players x would have to make loot randomly "disappear" over time. Otherwise you're gaining way more benefit than grouping.

You are ignoring the fact that monsters have +250% life and you don't have 5 people helping you kill the monsters. You have to be able to take on huge packs of champs mixed with rare bosses. Regen life mod + Vitality aura, for instance is hard.

We deserve a reward for this extra challenge. People who exploit multiboxing are not challenged and multiboxing still works. Again, for proof just watch this guy's stream sometime. He is offline now but streams regularly: http://www.twitch.tv/pibadi/new

This patch seems to have had absolutely no impact on his multiboxing farming. He is probably earning about 3x what I was soloing in Fellshrine (killing, not just "chesting"). He has way less challenge. He can just stand there and tank Cruel Merveil, bring his newbie characters in and collect piles of rares.