Life is an RNG fiesta
Hi boys and girls,
I hope you are all well on this last day of this challenging year. As prob many of you, i've been frustrated with RNG in PoE many times to the point i thought too much about it lol. My last 5 years have been quite a rollercoaster (while most of it were downslopes) which inevitably lead to questioning all the things that have happened and that might have happened, but didn't. Good and bad. So while going thru all of it and playing PoE along the way, I've came to the conclusion that luck has the mayor part in life. That is something frown upon in todays society, where everyone is pushing the mantra that they deserved their success or they have it because they worked hard or whatever. "You are angry because of the thigs you deserve, but you didn't get. Don't let me show you all the things you've got, but you didn't deserve." This morning I stumbled on this video on YT which i would like you to watch which fantastically explains factor of luck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LopI4YeC4I&ab_channel=Veritasium Luck also has the mayor part in PoE. Lucky drops, lucky rolls, hits, mods, layouts.... It resembles life very much in that way, without going into is it good or bad for the game. The more you do/attempt in PoE the more chances you have to have that lucky Mirror drop, that lucky roll on your item. It's the same irl. In broad sense, you are lucky from the day you were born. Be grateful for what you have. I wish you all great 2021! Torstein Last bumped on Jan 6, 2021, 10:57:09 PM
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Einstein was fundamentally wrong - the entire underpinnings of creation are God playing dice with the universe and here we are.
Like it or hate it, we can accept that we can theoretically sorta grasp it a little bit, or not grok it at all, and just do what we're real good at doing - stacking the deck better for each other. Stay safe and sane, see ya next year! [19:36]#Mirror_stacking_clown: try smoke ganja every day for 10 years and do memory game
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Flying Spaghetti Monster also agrees with life being RNG.
Happy New Year folks, and let's hope it's a better one than 2020 which will be fucking off very shortly. 😹😹😹😹😹
I do not and will not use TFT. Gaming Granny :D 🐢🐢🐢🪲🪲🪲 | |
In some ways, life is RNG. In many ways it is not.
In the long run what you put in is what you get, you can be focused in real life and achieve what you seek and you can be focused in PoE and achieve what you seek through your own work. So then, you could state that so PoE is like life, an RNG fiesta. However, that is such a broad generalization that you miss the overall picture. Listen closely now, i am not kidding with the next part. What you really do is you portraying more attributes of stockholm syndrom, of hopelessness and surrendering to hopelessness. Because too much RNG is an extremely unhealthy design. Now is PoE too much RNG? I won't even go into that, but that is the real question here, because you can find rng aspects in most things in life but does that mean everything is equal? No - only through the broadest generalization. Korean MMO's they tend to often have a design like in Archeage and BDO where you get chances to upgrade items and they can degrade etc and it's so expensive and you are such a slave to it that the whole RNG system breaks down people. Take a look at a lot of comments under this video: https://youtu.be/HFo9BMNSXCs?t=1207 Here are some of the comments:
Spoiler
""I'm in too deep now, I can't even put out""
"The RNG of this game is so brutal, quitting this game was like a breath of fresh air." "Game kills me each day" "I was soo close to going back to BDO while watching this video I kept telling myself wow it looks so fun again. Then it got to the point when he was enhancing and the PTSD kicked in..... thank you Peon you saved me from more mental pain!" "Yup never hitting that enhance button ever again. I have removed all gambling games from my life & my mental health has DRASTICALLY improved." "I remember enhancing for TRIs years ago, crying over the losses and going back to asula. Good days." "This is true story for me. I installed bdo again last week bc i was really out of games to play. I missed my char so much but remembering all the struggles of me trying and failing to get tri and tet has made me uninstall the thing again after just 20mins." "I absolutely hated the enhancement system in this game. It's the worst rng part of bdo IMO. I'm so glad I quit" "LOOL man said PTSD. Imagine a game doing that to you xD" "Progression in BDO is made with lots of painful tears, it makes you feels like you're giving up on yourself when you're trying to quit. I have quit twice from BDO, it was not an easy divorce, yet everytime I saw a BDO video I remember my characters, thousands and thousands screenshots of my adventure, the spreadsheets I made just to calculate my BDO business plan, it has taken so much from you that you'd never felt completely whole." "Enhancement made me quit the game, I was addicted ... I almost opened my veins on those TET-PEN attempts >.<" "This game is just too dangerous for someone with no self control. I'm glad that I was able to quit playing." "REPEAT AFTER ME: I WILL NOT GO BACK TO BDO IT WILL CRUSH MY SOUL" "20:18 thank you so much for this section, i was about to download this cancer again" "you can go back, once you start upgrading then you'll remember the pain and quit once again. it's safe guys." "seems he went into all stages of depression and finaly arrived to the last stage , acceptation" The point is this: RNG to some extent is healthy, but RNG can be easily abused tapping into gambling addictions as well as causing you to gamble your hope and lose your hope inside when the RNG mercy doesn't add up. It needs to be used responsibly or it will take your soul. Also it has such a different effect on different people. It's very very easy to get your soul crushed by RNG systems - you need to come in with awareness and resilience and have your expectations adjusted for it. Just having fun you will get baited into soulcrush. Some people fall victims because of their personality, while other people's personality will lead them to thinking things like "those other people are fools they know what they can expect and they still can't handle it". That said, i'm gonna start playing that exact game when my new computer arrives. And ofc those were some of the people who got broken on the RNG you see there, as well as now there are systems where for the most part you can just buy the gear instead of having to bruteforce rng yourself and bla bla. But i have experienced first hand myself getting broken by RNG in games and quitting because of it. My all time worst move was buying a weapon for over 1k USD worth and gambling it on 12.5% upgrade chance and it faild and disintegrated entirely so it was no more. And there were still stages of upgrade above it with even lesser chances. That was Archeage, the heavyness of RNG on the gear system ruined the game, made it feel so soul crushing to try and also turned it into serious P2W game for whales. I met several irl millionaires just on my server, just minding my own business not even mingling with the elite crowd. That was one of the best games i have ever set my eyes on, ruined by extreme RNG in the gear craft system. For devs to use RNG it needs to go hand in hand with responsibility. You are playing with the hope and dreams of players, and it is very very easy to abuse addictive behaviour. And the truth is, most of the time if you have to choose between a system where you get predictive upgrades say for every 100h worth playing, or in 100h of playing you get enough that you can on average with rng get an upgrade - the reason to choose the RNG way is because it's so much more addictive and often leads people to invest in cash shops or other p2w in order to feel good again and overcome it, playing even more than before to overcome, or dispairing and quitting. Is that a healthy system? is that a system for the player first? Well you tell me. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster on Jan 2, 2021, 11:25:35 AM
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But it's not chance though. If you've ever heard the term "God of the gap" which is a phrase that means, whatever you don't understand you attribute to God. You can also say this phrase by simply evoking "RNGeesus". And also "Knoweldge is Power"
My point is that some players in PoE allow their melee character's hit chance or poison chance to be "random". While other have the information neccessary in order to ensure that they will hit/poison/shock/crit whatever the enemy every single time. So it's not a question of randomness. It's a question of how much do you really know. Because think of the first example of a hockey player. If the parents KNEW they wanted their kids to play hockey and they also had this information, then they would conceive their children in such a fashion as to ensure that they would be born in January. If all parents did this successfully then all hockey players would be born around January - and so there would be a new baseline established and what appeared to be random points on a graph (birth dates) would be reduced down to a singular point representing whatever the best possible day for a hockey player to be born might be. So the randomness of the hockey player's birthdates is directly caused by the ignorance of the parents. Just like how a new player would never have the same evasion rating or hit chance or crit chance of a 40 challenge player in PoE. Their inability to dodge or hit is directly related to all the things they dont' know abotu PoE and their character and the monsters in the game. My point is that 'Randomness' is just the fog of war that clouds the judgement of ignorant intellects. It's an illusion. Get more and more info and the randomness disappears more and more. BTW - this is the reason why people are so fascinated with this game. It's not the loot. It's the war against randomness that captivates us about PoE. Last edited by BearCares on Jan 2, 2021, 11:49:37 AM
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" I wouldn't agree on that. Yeah, you can give your kid every possible advantage. You can do everything to ramp up the odds for success. Is that a guarantee? Ofc not. There is no guaranteed thing in life except death of physical life that we know. In the other part of the video he illustrates bunch of runners. They are all talented, hard working, possible winners, etc. Only 3 make it to the top. Life of an individual is much less predictable than the char in PoE. Here in competitions everyone has the exact same start. You don't get that in life. Let me show you in most plastic way that I can what factor of luck (unpredictable internal or external influence) looks like in PoE short term. https://youtu.be/f0YLC6Va8Fg?t=466 4 top guys, where everyone of them did this at least thousand of times before. Last edited by TorsteinTheFallen on Jan 2, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
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" It is no coincidence that the sample people over and over rank highly in games where rng is a huge element. It is no coincidence that good pokers players make it further than mr average, on average. It is no coincidence that when people give their all to making focused changes in their life, they generally achieve it. Even achieving things which would seem out of reach for them. When you stop believing you have any power to influence your life in a tangible way - you stop making changes to influence your life. You surrender to hopelessness as a coping mechanism. It's a depowering belief. To believe that you don't have any influence over yourself. I can go much deeper, but ill just dig a little now. It starts here, it is true that anything you do is the result of what came before you. There is no true random, there is only action and reaction on a level so deep no human will ever decipher it because there are seemingly infinite repeating levels of detail and we can only see so far. So it is not random that we believe what we do, because the experiences we have had led us to believe that. It's not random if you stop acting to make impactful changes, life led you to believe that it doesn't matter - and it's not random that when someone convinced you that you can make changes that you start making choices to change things for yourself again. Are they then really choices? No, but you don't take the actions that feel like choices if you believe that it does not make a difference. Even RNG can be overcome with knowledge, knowledge that ties into your emotions and feelings, adjusting your expectations to persist until you make it. Knowledge to repeat the actions with the highest average rewards. At the end of the day, in real life and in games, the ones who achieve are the ones who act the most to optimize their actions and reach their goals - in spite of RNG they remain focused and use knowledge to make the most optimal choices. You will find that in the vast majority of cases IRL the ones who came from nothing, or from a bad start and ended up making it far or to the very top are the ones who kept a focus and a persistence in life - who keep reaching, kept going for the goal. In life it is VERY much real that you are no mere slave to RNG. Once people dedicate themselves and change their reaction patterns - they break and catapult themselves to reach their goals - and it is not random it's born out of the change of behaviour. In fact happiness is very much tied to being able to reach for the things you want, and feeling like you can get there. When you lose faith in your ability to do that - you get depressed. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster on Jan 2, 2021, 1:15:33 PM
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" This commenter throws a lot of "statistical stuffs that sound scientificky" at the screen, but then infers conclusions and interpretations that are largely.. B.S. His conclusions are falsely derived and largely fallacious... (How many words meaning "false" can one associate with his video? Lots.) TLDR: In brief, and sorry for the verbosity below - He's, IMO, intentionally demonstrating, for effect, a common error by trying to specifically apply some malformed population study to individuals. He's also refusing to define the key variable he's basing his conclusions on: "Luck." He's then relying on his audience's ignorance in order to present an inflammatory conclusion that is meant to generate "views." Note: I spoilered the below to save your browser-bits. It's a more detailed examination of the vid and subject, with some explanations for why his presentation is misleading and why "Luck" is largely being misunderstood and heavily misapplied, here. The conclusion is: Most of what he says is pure gobbity-gook related to any possibility of a valid assumption. He generated an inflammatory vid for page-hits, only. It shouldn't be paid any attention to, IMO, by anyone interested in how/why "Achievers" actually "achieve."
Spoiler
First of all, if you study a population of fifty-eleventy million people and discover that Over9000 of them are Janitors, does that mean you will become a Janitor? No. In fact, it says very little about specific "individuals" in that group other than something is "more likely" within a certain degree of confidence. Individuals in that population are little more than a set of probabilities if one is attempting to predict the likelihood of something appearing in them that was measured in that population. That's it. One specific person in that group might be an astronaut. That person might even be you. In fact, given random selection, you have a very slim chance of being that one astronaut, but it's still a chance. IF, however, one individual in that population was selected that just happened to be "you." But, lets say we're selecting an individual in a population "at random." Our chance of selecting a Janitor is very, very, high. But, if YOU are trying to select yourself from this random population, what are the chances you'll hit the mark if you threw a selection-dart at a chart of this population? Slim to none. Only what is directly measured can be meaningful, here. And, in a population, you don't measure fifty-eleventy billion people to make verifiable inferences about one specific individual person. At best, you have a "probability" that certain things will be true given an individual is truly a legitimate member of any statistical population. How often is it that you are exactly like one other person? How often is it that you, yourself, feel you are representative of an entire country's population? (No need to wait for the answer... :)) How heavily can I judge you, based on a statistical population, if you're sitting on the couch in my living room? Next up - He doesn't define critical variables used to substantiate his assertions. That is a sin. He should be denied the use of a statistical calculator for thirty days for refusing to define his "study's" variables...And, for using that to construct a false premise, he should have his pocket-protector confiscated. What. Is. "Luck." The presenter obviously ccrelates it with what? What do you correlate it with? "Randomness." Well, golly, I guess "Luck" is "Random" and thus, since I have a bunch of stuff I don't measure, I'll just lump it all into this amorphous thing called "Luck." (Exactly like he did with his "Astronaut" calcs and all his other B.S..) A real researcher would look at that and shout "B.S." You know what that "Luck" variable thing that he didn't bother to measure or define actually is? "Error." What he is actually talking about is a degree of error that he has subtracted from his confidence level in his statistical analysis just because he has chosen to call it "Luck." It's a false conclusion he is presenting to the viewer. He's saying "I don't know what Luck is, but I am going to assign it a variable instead of just acknowledging it should actually be added "Error."" Because of this, his confidence level is lower than what is needed to truly yield a statistically meaningful result... But, he maintains that is what he is presenting. Which is... false. But, he's not talking to anyone familiar with population studies or statistics. Those people wouldn't stand for one minute of his interpretations, much less "like and subscribe" so they can get some "discount" on some other B.S. he's hawking. What is "Luck?" What is it "in real life?" Notice how the presenter tends to mention a great deal of "skill" and "hard work" associated with people who have achieved the top-tier spots in their chosen profession. Notice it. And then, notice how he throws in "luck" as explaining why... someone else didn't have those same achievements. "Others weren't as lucky." "Class over, lesson done, I have solved the Achievement Problem and you can now feel better about yourself and enjoy criticizing "Achievers" because they were, after all, just "more lucky" than you." No. Now, that doesn't mean you can win a footrace if you don't have any legs. It also doesn't mean you can't achieve success if you are severely disadvantaged, either! It means that there is largely "something else" going on that isn't specifically due to "random chance." If you don't define such things, you can absolutely not just lump them into one statistical measurement called "Luck" and then make inferences solely based on one... word. That's demented. Were you born into a wealthy family that is filled with people who are professionals with technical expertise and who may frequently associate with others in those positions? Did you, yourself, choose to pursue a technical or scientific career path, devote yourself to that, and also join the military as a pilot or in an MOS closely associated with your scientific education? Are you physically fit? Did you also engage in pursuits like going to "Space Camp" and to lectures and symposiums and "Job Day" meetings where you met professionals in various space-related programs? Did you apply for NASA's Astronaut program? Did you do that independently or were you afforded the opportunity while in the military? Well, then you may now be "lucky" in that you are much more likely to be able to secure a position in an Astronaut Training Program than... not being lucky enough. But, if you take a huge dump on a NASA interviewer's shoe, you might then not be judged as qualified to be a NASA Astronaut. DARN LUCK! You could also be ugly. So, maybe that's why you didn't get the job despite being qualified? Well, "bias against ugliness" is actually a "thing." Does that mean it's associated with "Luck." No. That you didn't choose a quality doesn't mean it should now be called "Luck." It just means you're ugly and that, itself, is "somewhat" qualifiable and marginally quantifiable. But, how strong an effect does that have on your Astronaut candidacy? Well, to judge that, we'd have to measure that, first. Right? And, if we haven't measured it first can we then just chalk it up to "Luck" and ignore it? No. And, if we can't, can we even judge your candidacy solely based on that one characteristic you couldn't control, yourself? Heck no! We'd have to weight it and to do that we'd have to study it. We can't just lump it under "Luck." Eg: Did that wind at the back of those runners count as "Luck?" No. It was applied to all runners running in those races, right? It may not have been constant across all races, though, right? So, what do we say about it? It's a variable that isn't easily possible to predict, beforehand, but we can measure its effects after-the-fact. So, if we wish to "predict" something, it's a margin of error we'll just control for by.. throwing it out the window. If we want to "measure" something, then we can measure it after it occurs. Will you make a World Record today in your race? Do I know the wind is blowing or not? " You're making the same mistake the Youtuber did - "Luck" is not the same thing as "Randomness" is it? Is your "qualifiable" interpretation of "something lucky" quantifiable? And, if it is, how is it quantifiable? If you're playing PoE and running Tier 1 maps, how "likely" is it that you are going to get a six-link chest drop? The likelihood of that happening is pretty low when it's relatively compared to someone who's running back-to-back runs of Tier fifty-eleven maps that they have spent a load of currency customizing, isn't it? When that six-link drops, is it just "lucky" because there is are degrees of freedom/RNG involved here? Is it "lucky" that the player spent three Exalted Orbs worth of currency in crafting their end-game map so they could get a much better chance of having five Exalts worth of drops come from playing that map? Remember - They also had to put in work to achieve that "luck." One can heavily, very heavily, influence things that some people interpret to be "lucky." In real life, "Luck," or random chance, can be manipulated to a certain extent when one is attempting to achieve a goal. For instance, one does those things where it is more likely that "chance" will operate in one's favor than not. If one is not a race-car driver, one will not likely ever win a race-car race that includes variables many consider to be "random chance." What is the likelihood of becoming a published author if one never writes a book? Is it a failure of "luck?" Most of the time "in real life" things that people consider to be "lucky" are, in fact, just occurrences that aren't easily understood and are difficult to predict because of that. (It's also a very favored excuse by some...) Note: And, his assumptions regarding some other stuffs are just... wrong. For instance, those who inherit wealth are more likely to end up with less wealth over time, in "general." Certain outliers do exist, like the "extremely wealthy" who have such absurd passive incomes it's very difficult to just blow it all without purposefully trying to be a screw-up. :) Last edited by Morkonan on Jan 2, 2021, 2:41:10 PM
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" Hey Crackmonster, I presumed that "It is no coincidence that good pokers players...." is going to come up. Short sighted yeah, it's not much of coincidence. Broad sighted, it is. You are looking at predefined events in a relatively short time span. When I predefined I mean, you have established individuals in a particular activity. Even then, there is a luck factor in that narrow observation field. But lets go from the beginning, way before all of this and take a look a the grand scale of things. We live on this beautiful Earth that is placed just right from the Sun to have conditions favorable for life development. Before us there were dinosaurs. Then meteor hits, kills them all and makes favorable conditions for other species to develop, like us. Thru hundreds of thousands of years and specific genetic combinations homo sapiens emerges with higher intellectual potential than any species that lived before (as far as we know). That species was not as tough as the dinosaurs were, but the climate changes were also favorable that we could endure them and that we could learn that we can grow crops... Fast Forward, there is a boy named Amer Al-Barkawi. One skinny looking kid, born in the sandy country of Jordan. Just a regular kid of his age, hanging out with friends. Doing what most of his peers do. He liked to play video games. He had older brother that he liked to hang with in internet cafés and play games. So one day he started to play Dota. He liked it very much and when he found out there is The International, championship of the world, he wanted to win it. He worked and worked very hard and one day he won it! His name is Miracle, most famous Dota player ever. Like in the video I posted (i can't emphasize enough how good it is) people tend to be blind either to personal work or luck. The reality of things is that you need both. If Miracle was born or living in Kuwait or Iraq, he might have had died in the wars that happened there. If genetic material from his parents didn't combine just the right way, he would never had intellectual and mechanical capacity to be what he is, no matter how hard he worked for it. If he rode a camel and fall on his head, he might broke his neck. If he had parents that didn't allowed him to play video games, ne never would become the Miracle. This list can go indefinitely! What I want to say is that luck has mayor part in our lives. Yes, it is depowering IF you put everything on it, because it's not the only part of the equation. I'm 35y old now. If you've asked me or my relatives or friends 10y ago what will my future life be they would all say "he's going to be great doctor, surgeon, rich, you name it". I worked hard for it, I had almost best possible predispositions/odds for it. But life happened and at one point i was with 2 suitcases on the street. I lost everything. My job, my apartment, my prospects for the future. Puff, its all gone now. Just like that. Been thru depression, been thru psy therapy. I know what you are saying. Therapist said the same thing. That I need to take control of me and things that I can influence. She said lots of things, just not everything. That you need luck too in life. No one is taking away hard work that people put in. You need to do whatever you can. You will push the odds in your favor that way. Will you come on top of the things? Ultimately, i hope that everyone will, but i know it doesn't work that way. I hate when people blame others or put pressure on someone or even themselves for mistakes or failed tasks by premise of "you are responsible for everything that happens in your life". Lots of bullshit if you ask me, because there is so little you can keep absolute control off. Most of the time, we can't even handle ourselves. There is whole branch of science to deal with it. Luck is the part of everything, and we can't control it. Therefore we focus on what we can. But not to look at it from the negative side, realization of it brings a solace, that it's not all our fault nor our merit. |
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" I've read it couple of times, but im not sure what you've meant other than it's false. If someone has two kids and one is born stupid and other smart, what would you call that? Maybe I'm not smart enough to understand, but pls water it down for me if it's not a too much trouble. |
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