Game Balance in Path of Exile: Expedition

The Devs are fine with you breaking the game - as long as you must pass a massive currency or RNG gate to do it. The very existence of items like Headhunter and Reliquary Keys for dredging up pre-nerf Legacy Gear bears this out.

You will see nerfs when game-breaking power becomes available to the mases without massive currency outputs or lottery-winning luck. This is central to GGG's design philosophy.

People get angry every patch cycle, and insist that GGG is targeting Joe-Average, as "Joe-Average" is the one who takes the brunt of the nerfs. Well, to be brutally honest... then answer to that statement/question is yes they are.

Joe-average is precisely the target. If GGG allows middle-of-the-road budget builds to break their game, it will become too easy and collapse. The treadmill is the game, and it's survival depends on the perpetual motion.

If you didn't pay hundreds of exalt for you build, or win the power-ball, you can expect your build will get zapped to near unplayability. The powerful versions of those builds, gated behind the best gear, will still clear content just fine. The budget copies of those builds will be wrecked.

This is not an unreasonable design concept. When you understand the situation, how it works, and what is coming, you can plan your strategy and adapt accordingly.
Last edited by Sabranic_SilverDeth#2793 on Jul 20, 2021, 8:33:00 AM
I think this patch is a good start for the next plan for balancing -> Boosting players defense.

In term of boosting, that doesn't mean you really need improve it.
If having 4k eHp is that standard for playing the game, than this is a Buff!!!
Forcing a player to taking the most effective path in the skill tree for HP% or ES% and allocating them all is not good design at all.

You must allow a excessive amount of HP% and ES% that the players will not take because they can choose not to. Than this is a Buff!!! to DPS!! or to whatever stuff they wanna make the build fun.

Allowing easier access for better Defensive item, more HP/ES on item is a way to buff DPS too. Because player won't to have sacrifice too much for defense.

Than you finally need to consider OP unkillable build, by making content to make it so that it is NOT REWARDING to be unkillable. Has excessive HP/ES% passive nodes like
+10%HP -10% item quantity,
+100%HP Unique enemies does not does drop its own specific drop.

Players like glass cannon, because it is REWARDING!!!!

Conclusion, the hardest balancing of all, the monsters!!!!

And than you have the longest unsolved problem since day1, Physical spell is killer for pure Evasion equipment build. You cannot evade a spell and it will hit you for full damage because you have no armor.
Last edited by linghuchong9#4177 on Jul 20, 2021, 9:09:39 AM
"
Bakudan wrote:
I'm the kind of "bad" player who play the game since Beta, around 100-200h per league approximatly (mostly SSF SC).
I still play the game because there is a toon of Bosses i've still never saw and defeated (Uber Elder, Aul, the Harvest One, Cortex).

I've only manage to reach and kill Shaper once since it was release, i've only manage to reach Sirius a few times without a chance to make it past 50% life.

I don't care, i like having content still available because i need to get better or luckier on drops.

But the last 2 leagues i gived a shoot for SC trade league (from the end and then from the beginning) to see if with the few exalts i had, i could make some more progression, i did fully completed the Atlas for the first time and was "almost" able to reach Maven, "almost". But it would still have required a few more hundred of hours dedicated per league so....

Every big nerf (or balance like you love to call this insanity) since à few leagues just make me realize a will probably never reach that content at some point. It just make it more tedious.

I really think you don't realise how much time your game requires, how much knowledge, and you seems to only judge your content base on 10 streamers and a few ppl buying exalts, abusing mekanics or even bugs/macros, the same ppl being more vocal than the mass on every media, to "balance" your game.

I don't really mind having even more difficulty in the end, but for the Potato Sakes !! At least make something about gearing ourself, feel like we do have upgrade our characters after 100-200hours put in it. So sometimes we can find some real usefull pieces of stuff even Bind to the character, instead of 100% more punishement at every new steps and Gambling/RMT as the only way to make some improvement while playing.

Looting feel blank, crafting feels like requiring big Gambling addictions and a PHD at the same time, killing bosses feels as rewardings as killing a zombie on the Beach...

I don't know, maybe introduce some big "first time kill on this character reward" so people reaching those bosses for the first time each league have a chance to upgrade something. And people farming them can't abuse this.

Maybe you could even introduce stuff like the more time past between killing the same boss, the more he replenish his loot chance, so ppl farming them quickly don't see much difference but ppl farming them only a few times per week/month can see an improved chance to drop stuff ?

On the first time you kill each of those uniques Bosses like Atziri, Maven, Shaper, Elder, the Breach ones and so on, you get a usefull upgrade like +50 perma life, +1 extra tree point, unlock a usefull crafted mod, get a worthy full juiced map, get a guaranted Uniques/ special loot this Boss usually gives randomly, upgrade a dedicated new "Boss Tree" with special perk about defeating Bosses, i would love this one.

You could also remove those phoquing "reflect damage" "mecanics"/modifiers on maps wich just lead to random stupids insta kills.

Since you also love to "cap" thing for players, well you can use this amazing skill to also "cap" stuff like "bleeding/poison/DoT damages from monster can't reach more than 10-20% of your life pool per second", why mobs insanity should be uncapped in this way ?


You also don't seems to realize that the real problem is that ppl stacking months of currencies can make a regular build just 10x more powerfull, that the issue, not ppl playing an "OP" build in its unleashed version of 10% of his power because he doesn't have every shaper jewel, every perfect rolls, every orbs in hundreds of time to gamble the values and so on. Maybe you need to figure out how to "Hard Cap" some values, to prevent some spells to hit more than thousand times per second by something else than mana cost which can be nullified with top end investment.

You could just make it impossible to stack more than X times the same modifier, instead of nerfing all the value bind to it.

You could make things like getting exponentially more numbers on stats can also give exponentially more counter-stats/debuff so it doesn't affect thing for regular values but kinda hard cap to much stackings.
For example if you judge than 200% more physical damage is the soft spot, make it so every 10 more extra% reduce life by 1%, just a random value example.

Instead of having the mass being collateral damages for your lazy global numbers cuts.


Anyway, i guess like the last league and some other ones too, i will vote/disapprove your blind changes with my wallet after trying the league for a few days. Maybe its the only solution that can affect those decisions mades around the elite only...


+1 Yet we all know GGG will ignore any feedback from non-streamers
GGG needs to work on making the game fun. When I burnout during a league it's not because the game isn't challenging enough or too fast paced... It's the lack of things to do during end game. I can go kill bosses for the "feels" or I can grind currency to buy awakened gems by mapping and doing heist. SUPER FUNZ! They took away Aisling and Harvest which I found as interesting end game options to improve items further and keep playing. Also, what is the incentive to get to max level in this game? Even most streamers won't even touch it. Give the last few levels something meaningful and maybe that will help your player retention each league.
Last edited by Vaildez#6753 on Jul 20, 2021, 8:44:52 AM
last season made 1 char got to maps but didn't like build so rolled a 2nd and got about half way through the campaign and just quit, about 99% of the player base have no real interest in making the campaign harder as we done it soo meany times all ready
Just crap changes, you clearly lost touch with your player base and you can see that in the all time low numbers you have right now. Someone gave GGG a shovel and they keep digging their own grave but good for them if that's the plan. Everyone is playing PoE for the drops and the speed of things, pop the map in a couple of minutes and be done with it. For some reason you want to slow things down to Albion levels and nerf away every moving thing. Very disappointed in the last league and the new one seems to be very bad as well... RIP.
Thanks for the changes GGG!! Like all of it, maybe only Adrenaline Flask too much :D
"
delgar89 wrote:
Finally. Give me some damn challenge, not this games for babies that like to run on maps with their eyes closed.... About time this game goes back to its roots. League after league it was getting more ridiculous. Slow it, slow player movement, make mobs harder. Make the game viable in coop not a damn rat race on maps we have now. Thank you!


heres the deal fam, the game is as hard as you want it to be. you could for instance never use a gem over lvl 10, use only magic items, never apply more than 50 skill points, etc etc etc. you can literally make the game as hard and as slow as you want without GGG doing anything.
I play one char per league, 2h per day tops. I would like to kill Maven, Uber-Elder, Atziri and many other end-game bosses. But I can't. Not only because of "power gate" - that can be passed going with well described build - but when you are able to encounter boss only few times per league (max 2x Maven encounters per league) how can I learn the mechanics? Watching videos and guides is not enough.

I also have another problem - I have partial colour blindness. Encounters like Maven, Sirius and (to some extend) Uber-Elder are not possible for me :D. It would be really cool to see what is happening without changing monitor settings just for the fight.

You do the good work, but - from "commoners" perspective chance of "cathing the rabbit" of endgame is too far to be considered fun by most. Elite - no matter the nerfs - will be elite.
Where is Nerf Mathil?

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