GGG, we should really talk... [WS Drop Log: Tier 8 Maps/100 Waystone update]

did more than 100 maps and i can confirm that i cannot sustain higher maps even if i use every mechanic the game has to offer. every time i got a bunch of t15 waystones and i complete them i end up having no more t15 left. but i do not fall back to t14. it's more like that i have to start over from t12 to slowly progress to t13 and t14. they definitly need to adress this issue.

running ssf. Have no troubles with sustain since campaign -> maps.
1. Just get atlas passives for +waystones quantity and chance to get +1 level for waystones.
2. convert 3 to 1.
3. also you may want to run mechanics for extra quantity.
4. expedition -> dig maps.

I did t1 to t15 progression while skipping mechanics (except expedition for logboxes) and bosses (until t14+irradiated). I also skipped +1 maps until t10+.

Anecdotal or you have any data on that? Drop log of 20+ waystones? Character item rarity? Would be interesting to compare if ssf has increased/decreased parameters vs standard

I would think it would be reasonable to expect an increase since ssf can't trade, but also if it exists what works in ssf may not apply in standard

I have no problems sustaining maps in SSF and that's with running half of them blue (gotta save those alcs & regals for gambling for gear).

The main trick is to use your best map (% waystone drop chance) on boss nodes. You'll get several T15 back from the boss.

eg. this is the norm:



On the Atlas tree grab % chance for waystone drops & waystone higher tier. I also have nodes for more rare & blue mobs + Deadly Evolution. Of course juice the Atlas with towers.

Why can't map completion always reward 1 waystone of the same tier?

If anyone playing ssf would like to conduct a parallel study and provide the raw data of 100 waystone events we could compare results, otherwise we don't know if it's apples to apples

As pointed out earlier saying this is the norm with n=1 is only a normal way to make an anecdote. Collect data, report results, submit for peer review.

Now maybe you might say "But the devs said the drop rates are the same, just no trade so we know it's fair to compare." Yes and they also said armor does something.

Added benefit: The devs might address this and they will say "improved waystone drop rates and tiers" in a patch notes. We would be able to ask Did they? What are the rates now? What does improve mean?

Columns for data formatting, log each drop as a row (JMP formatting uses stacked data unlike excel) 2 drops from the same map provided as an example:

An additional column for Events might be helpful (boss, breach, altars, etc) I have been intentionally running basic maps without for now

MapID Map WS_Tier WS_Rar Char_MF WS+% WS_Drop
1 Steppe T1 M 154% 70% T1n
1 Steppe T1 M 154% 70% T2r

Posted part of this already but I am 83 in ssf. I have no stats only my playing exp but my map sustain is an issue. I am currently on t9 quest and I only have access to t5 maps and I already combined my lower maps. I also do not feel like putting in the time on lower maps with no real gain just trying to get a good drop.

I understand I likely did not min/max all options for map drops but I did pick all the atlas waystone multipliers as I went. I was just playing the game. I was aware of juicing with the assumption that the map juicing was to get chances at better/more loot, not that you needed to do specific maps with specific things to just keep up with the basic map levels that you need to play in a meaningful way.


I also don't understand why we can only buy t5 and below and not something equivalent to our current level. I really like the game and am hoping that this is an unintended issue that will be addressed.

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Call_Me_Rage_#9997 wrote:

As pointed out earlier saying this is the norm with n=1 is only a normal way to make an anecdote. Collect data, report results, submit for peer review.

I have my data - a tab full of T13+ and over-sustaining T15 right now.

Besides of what I've already pointed out, also fill out the boss atlas bonus ASAP; the first two points that give more loot and more waystones from bosses are the best (Spoils of War & Radiant Waystones).

In my experience every boss drops from 3 to 5 maps with this setup.

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SSF and Standard are exactly the same - drops wise, because in no way would GGG ever incentivize SSF play over the economy.

Also note that item rarity does nothing for map drops. The % chance on the waystone, the % chance on tablets and quantity nodes on the Atlas influence waystone drops.

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Mojowolf#8585 wrote:

Posted part of this already but I am 83 in ssf. I have no stats only my playing exp but my map sustain is an issue. I am currently on t9 quest and I only have access to t5 maps and I already combined my lower maps...

Here's what you should prioritize on the atlas tree, while building up to T15 (at least this worked for me):



All toward waystone quantity & higher tier. (Local knowledge is a very useful node to always have on, though)

The next thing is to prioritize using precursor tablets with "increased quantity of waystone drops" on your towers.

And the most important bit is to use your best rolled maps on boss nodes. Bosses have an increased chance to drop maps (and all loot in general).

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That's all. I played two mod maps (blue) until T14 and still sustained. You can even loot +1 maps from chests when the map is irradiated. If anything, I think GGG will make map sustain harder in the future.

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morbo#1824 wrote:

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Call_Me_Rage_#9997 wrote:

As pointed out earlier saying this is the norm with n=1 is only a normal way to make an anecdote. Collect data, report results, submit for peer review.

I have my data - a tab full of T13+ and over-sustaining T15 right now.

Besides of what I've already pointed out, also fill out the boss atlas bonus ASAP; the first two points that give more loot and more waystones from bosses are the best (Spoils of War & Radiant Waystones).

In my experience every boss drops from 3 to 5 maps with this setup.

---

SSF and Standard are exactly the same - drops wise, because in no way would GGG ever incentivize SSF play over the economy.

Also note that item rarity does nothing for map drops. The % chance on the waystone, the % chance on tablets and quantity nodes on the Atlas influence waystone drops.

So data not formatted, got it.

"In my experience every boss drops 3-5 maps with this setup": How many bosses tested? What's the confidence interval on that? What are the key parameters tested with and without being enabled? How much of an effect are you getting between drop quantity/tier higher?

"Tab full of over sustaining waystones": what is the definition of over sustaining? What is the baseline sustain? How can you be over sustaining if you haven't calculated what regular sustaining is? What is the average efficiency per map? What is your underlying distribution of waystone tier drops relative to map tiers? What is it without modifiers?

Your tab full of unformatted waystone data doesn't help answer these questions and that's okay no requirement to contribute. Wasn't intending a slight to elicit a "Well my tab says otherwise!" response, just saying it isn't usable