The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

My point of view :

Permanent loss is something i dislike. I deal with it in PoE 1 and 2 but my experience would be better without it. I don't think anything you guys can say can change my mind about it. And it's the case for everyone, that's why we have weeks of recursive arguments.

GGG is gonna say "no" or ignore us. And some of us will deal with it like me or quit forever.

Or, a lot less likely, GGG is going to do something about it and some of you will deal with it or quit.

Nobody is going to change its mind in spite of the beautiful paragraphs that both sides are copy pasting every 2 pages. So let's just agree to disagree and stop alienating each other in this hollow debate.

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MEITTI#3999 wrote:

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

Secondly, there are other ways to make death count that don't involve kicking those who stumble while they are down.

Such as? The solution you mentioned would just be a hyperbuff to XP overall and people would clear all the game content in less than 4 days, we would be back to Diablo 4 again. Your suggestion would mean the overall XP gain per hour would need to be nerfed to the absolute ground that you're lucky enough to get a level once per two full days of grind.

I didn't give "a solution" I made a number of suggestions which could be considered in combination and I have seen numerous other suggestions which are also plausible.

And I specifically said the XP curve could be modified to maintain a similar length of journey for those who rarely die.

It's not about making anything faster or easier, it's about making it an enjoyable exciting journey rather than a boring one. No matter how you try to strawman me (and others) by claiming we just want it to be easier.

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

You seem to have not understood me. The issue is that the same maps you were finding to be just the right challenge a few levels ago become too unrewarding to make up for the ever increasing loss on death. This could happen at any tier of map. I at no point said anything about not being able to go up a tier.

But really if you're level 90+ and you still die at Tier 1 maps, then the fault dies not lie in the game but the player. That is such a level disparity that if you still keep dying on lower tier maps at that point, your build needs some reworks. Unlike D4, Path of Exile fully expects you to have and to actively maintain robust defences.

Granted to be fair Life- and Armor are too weak right now but thats a number tweaking issue and it doesn't get solved by removing death penalties from a game.

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It's not about making anything faster or easier, it's about making it an enjoyable exciting journey rather than a boring one.

And what does "boring" mean exactly? If theres no penalty for death, the game becomes incredibly boring because you don't have to care about dying.

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Yeah, as it’s been stated a billion times already, if you’re struggling to make it past lvl 70, an xp penalty is clearly not the problem here. It’s that you’re unwilling, or incapable of learning how to adjust. Just ask for an easy mode.

What a bizarre claim. If the only thing that changed to make the game less fun was the XP penalty, then it is the one and only problem.

If someone is having fun making slow progress with a suboptimal build they enjoy playing, why is that a problem? It's not. Only for elitists who think if you don't play a super powerful build your enjoyment of the game is irrelevant.

Because removing the xp penalty doesn’t solve that problem. If you are stuck at 70 with an xp penalty, removing it just means you are stuck on low tier maps that drop shit gear instead, which is the same thing. You just skip right to the part where you lose currency, and then you’ll be right back on this forum complaining about the difficulty and ask,”why is all the loot bad, can’t we just have all the good loot drop from low tiers, so we can play at our own pace?”

“Why are the bosses so hard with my 1k health build, could you make them easier, so I can do it on any build I’m playing? that’s what’s fun for me!”

Don’t believe me? Go look at.

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MEITTI#3999 wrote:

But really if you're level 90+ and you still die at Tier 1 maps....

Nobody said anything about this hyperbolic scenario. Please stop straw manning.

But even if they did, and if someone is still having fun running T1 maps at 90 and still dying occasionally, why is that a problem for anyone but them?

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And what does "boring" mean exactly? If theres no penalty for death, the game becomes incredibly boring because you don't have to care about dying.

Nobody has suggested there should be no penalty for dying. Or even implied it. Or even argued that a high-death strategy should be efficient. Please stop straw manning.

If there is no possibility of death in a combat game that revolves around trying to kill enemies before they kill you, then that is boring for the vast majority of normal people who enjoy being challenged.

I still fail to see any benefit player can gain from exp penalty... in PoE 2. Beside of "it's the core" "it's challenge" "it served to punish" and kind of that...

If the build or player skill is bad, the punish is already serve by repeating those boss over and over because no portal allow anymore. (With the stupidest thing I ever see in ARPG, and in PoE that already have good instance manager - monster respawn)

Some say it encourage stupid(?) build that can just keep dying. ... I mean, is it THAT BAD to play some stupid build?
If you worry about those people will rant is SO HARD WAHHHH .... that also another story. They always ranting so it's invalid point to pick up at all.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Yeah, as it’s been stated a billion times already, if you’re struggling to make it past lvl 70, an xp penalty is clearly not the problem here. It’s that you’re unwilling, or incapable of learning how to adjust. Just ask for an easy mode.

What a bizarre claim. The only thing that changed to make the game less fun was the XP penalty. It is the one and only problem.

If someone is having fun making slow progress with a weak build they enjoy playing, why is that a problem? It's not. Only for elitists who think if you don't play a super powerful build your enjoyment of the game is irrelevant.

Yep exactly, the only people who defend exp loss and other death penalties are just gatekeeping and getting some kind of ego boost from how they can copy-paste a meta build and reach lvl100.

Wrong again, I’ve never hit 100 in this game or the original. It’s not a realistic goal to aim for. What am I gate keeping from you? I’ve tried meta builds, still never reached 100. I don’t play this game to feed my ego, I play it because it has depth beyond reaching an arbitrary number. It’s fun pushing against that!

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Yeah, as it’s been stated a billion times already, if you’re struggling to make it past lvl 70, an xp penalty is clearly not the problem here. It’s that you’re unwilling, or incapable of learning how to adjust. Just ask for an easy mode.

What a bizarre claim. If the only thing that changed to make the game less fun was the XP penalty, then it is the one and only problem.

If someone is having fun making slow progress with a suboptimal build they enjoy playing, why is that a problem? It's not. Only for elitists who think if you don't play a super powerful build your enjoyment of the game is irrelevant.

Because removing the xp penalty doesn’t solve that problem.

Solve which problem? It absolutely solves the "making no progress due to the XP loss" problem. And the situation that remains after removing it, should not be of concern to anyone but the player experiencing it. Your response doesn't make sense.

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If you are stuck at 70 with an xp penalty, removing it just means you are stuck on low tier maps that drop shit gear instead, which is the same thing.

Firstly that doesn't follow, and secondly it isn't at all the same thing.

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You just skip right to the part where you lose currency, and then you’ll be right back on this forum complaining about the difficulty and ask,”why is all the loot bad, can’t we just have all the good loot drop from low tiers, so we can play at our own pace?”

Why are you making up things I have never said? I don't believe I have complained about the loot in the slightest, on any thread. So, another straw man.

I definitely haven't asked for the gameplay to be made any easier quite the opposite, I would like to be able to have some excitement and risk in the game. But apparently that's not allowed if you want to make progress.

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“Why are the bosses so hard with my 1k health build, could you make them easier, so I can do it on any build I’m playing? that’s what’s fun for me!”

Constantly straw manning is a very good indicator that you have no good argument.

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Wrong again, I’ve never hit 100 in this game or the original. It’s not a realistic goal to aim for. What am I gate keeping from you? I’ve tried meta builds, still never reached 100. I don’t play this game to feed my ego, I play it because it has depth beyond reaching an arbitrary number. It’s fun pushing against that!

Cool, so why can't you let other people have fun the way they want to in the game? Why is it so bad if they remove the exp penalty?

Yeah there are no downsides, only upsides to removing it.

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

But even if they did, and if someone is still having fun running T1 maps at 90 and still dying occasionally, why is that a problem for anyone but them?

Why should we balance the game around players who are bad at the game? Should we go and make Sekiro and Elden Ring easier as well because some players can't get past the Ogre in Sekiro or keep banging their head against Tree Sentinel in Elden Ring?

You accuse me of strawmanning but I'm grasping at straws here because your argument has reduced into "its boring". I'm not a mind-reader, give a more clear definition of what is "boring content" and what is not. If its not lower tier maps then what is it? "Its boring" is not an argument, its a generalisation that is meaningless.