The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

just make it an option menu point so ppl can decide. wtf. /closed.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

i also like the idea of losing the xp from the map itself. this means ur not disincentivised to try bosses and hard content, but you dont gain anything from it and lose the content if you cant complete it properly.

weve seen in other games the idea of you having the xp bar, say its 50% full with a yellow bar. when you go in a map the xp earned in the map then is a different colour chunk on the end, when you complete the map by killing all the rares and the boss that xp then becomes permanent...

This is a suggestion I made in a thread somewhere around here.

This actually _would_ gatekeep players from just grinding to max level as they would need to overcome the challenges to advance. But it would do it in a way that feels fair instead of punishing.

Again something that feels like it would be common sense to an experienced game developer.

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snazldude22#2861 wrote:

just make it an option menu point so ppl can decide. wtf. /closed.

Exactly. Its the most simple,easiest solution. They could do it for that and for the 1 portal per map thing and just let people play the game how they want to.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

I don't get this argument that it forces you to stop and think about your build.

I literally do that in every single game where I die more than a few times in a short period of time. Like 30 minutes to an hour. Okay, 3 deaths. Shop for some potions, lets upgrade this piece of gear and that piece of gear. Okay, lets go get some herbs. Oh, I found a new weapon. Okay, what's my plan for the next few levels, where do I put my skill points, what do I need?

That is literally how games are meant to be played. Dying is the punishment. You just wasted 5-10 minutes. Die three times. Look at your character. That's what people do.

Why do they think it's different in PoE?

This is not actually true.

Tales abound throughout the Internet of people slamming their face into the same Elden Ring boss dozens or even hundreds of times without ever doing anything different. they don't back off and go farm runes, or change their build, or even meaningfully try and adapt their tactics. They just smash their jubblies into the boss until they get lucky, then complain about being stuck so long.

This is also why maps/waystones exist in the first place. Grinding Gear discovered, very early on, that if there was no economic cost to doing content, people would just automatically do the most difficult content the game offered regardless of whether they had any prayer of getting through it, and when a character in the low seventies in dogpoo self-found gear with no resist above 40%, no defense number higher than 20%, and DPS they haven't really improved since Act 4 bounces of the Arbiter a thousand times that player believes the game to be at fault, rather than their build being at fault. They watch Streamer Memers effortlessly smashing everything the game has to offer because Streamer Memers get infinite free currency and can build entire mirror-worthy characters within three hours of league drop, and they feel like that's the way the game is supposed to be for everyone.

There has to be a cost for failure - beyond "my time" - or people will simply fail until they succeed rather than trying to address their failure, and their frustration with this method will eventually drive them from the game for being "too hard."

It's the same underlying reason people keep pushing for an Easy Mode in games like Elden Ring. What you are saying is, effectively, that a player who fails a handful of times in a row will take it upon themselves to analyze their own play, their own choices, decisions and tactics, and voluntarily look for ways to, as they say, "Git Gudder." Evidence overwhelmingly suggests this is not the case.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

i also like the idea of losing the xp from the map itself. this means ur not disincentivised to try bosses and hard content, but you dont gain anything from it and lose the content if you cant complete it properly.

weve seen in other games the idea of you having the xp bar, say its 50% full with a yellow bar. when you go in a map the xp earned in the map then is a different colour chunk on the end, when you complete the map by killing all the rares and the boss that xp then becomes permanent...

This is a suggestion I made in a thread somewhere around here.

This actually _would_ gatekeep players from just grinding to max level as they would need to overcome the challenges to advance. But it would do it in a way that feels fair instead of punishing.

yeah i think its a really good way to do it, it keeps the highest amount of upsides and the least amount of downsides. im sold.

Xp loss is a problem. If it weren't there wouldn't be threads about it. It's narcissistic. No one is playing a game to feel like sh*t for having played it. It's horrific. You're forced to play like a coward and take no chances while you slow grind to 100. THEN you risk. It's a bad system in it's state. It's not a paid service like an MMO so... Please don't waste my time.

I like the idea of earning xp. I do not like the idea of it being taken.

Especially in a game having ridiculous one shot mechanics, loss of control mechanics, as swell as, ridiculous baiting mechanics. Rituals on bridges? WTF? You literally have to run back and forth with no ability to maneuver or dodge if you wanted to...

It seems the best way to level is to not play the side mechanics. Both Ritual and Expedition are bad waste both in terms of reward, time, and xp. There should be no immunities in expedition. The fact that those are in expedition requires you to fear placements. Meaning you're supposed to stop completely to over think about placements. So its a huge loss of time and xp in the setup. For little to no rewards. Even the currency rewards become irrelevant at a point. So far only Breaches matters as a side mechanic for good xp.

IMO the standing xp loss on death needs a minimum of a cut in half. Then you can actually consider pushing yourself.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

i also like the idea of losing the xp from the map itself. this means ur not disincentivised to try bosses and hard content, but you dont gain anything from it and lose the content if you cant complete it properly.

weve seen in other games the idea of you having the xp bar, say its 50% full with a yellow bar. when you go in a map the xp earned in the map then is a different colour chunk on the end, when you complete the map by killing all the rares and the boss that xp then becomes permanent...

This is a suggestion I made in a thread somewhere around here.

This actually _would_ gatekeep players from just grinding to max level as they would need to overcome the challenges to advance. But it would do it in a way that feels fair instead of punishing.

yeah i think its a really good way to do it, it keeps the highest amount of upsides and the least amount of downsides. im sold.

Love this idea, it actually addresses 90% of all the people who are agaisnt removing it completely. And the last 10% is such a silly rean being "they could just get to 100 by luck now spamming maps they sometimes win and sometimes lose"

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Xenobius2501#1140 wrote:

Insecure? In a game, of all things?
You're riding a dozen too many high horses, pal. Something I typically want from a game is entertainment, challenge and reward for time spent. Simple as that.

"Challenge" means that correct decisions are required to complete a task or earn a prize, with failure being a very real and possible end state of making incorrect decisions.

"Reward for time spent", the way you are positing it, completely contradicts your stated desire for "challenge". You are asking the game to simply hand you guaranteed everything, regardless of your performance in it, in order to 'respect your time'.

Do you want challenge, where you have to earn your rewards through good play? or do you want cozy-game 'reward for time spent' where it doesn't mattr what you do so long as you put in your hours?

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Xenobius2501#1140 wrote:

Current build of PoE2 is not entertaining, it feels like a tedious job. It's not challenging, because you can simply trade for quality gear and one-button faceroll any and all content with a copypasta FOMO build. And it's not rewarding, since the devs "balanced" it around having to trade through a website, of all things and your drops are either currency of just sh1t.

How is this any different that looking up guides and other information in any other game? You can look up builds and strategies for Elden Ring, too. You can look up builds and strategies for League of Legends. Hell, you can look up builds, guides, and optimization paths for maximizing the amount of walnuts per hour in Animal Crossing.

What's wrong with using information out in the wild to aid your play? If someone wants to look up a build guide or use the trade website rather than Dwarf Fortressing their way through the game, that's their business.

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Xenobius2501#1140 wrote:

On top of it all, it is unreasonably punishing in more ways than one, pushing people away from risk and excitement. Damn right I'm willing to ridicule white knights who think this is "the right way".

And if all you're going to do is ridicule people who tell you that your desires aren't sacrosanct and perfect, why should anyone pay the least bit of attention to you?

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Xenobius2501#1140 wrote:

Granted, this is how PoE1 was most of the time, but I guess I was naive enough to hope PoE2 could become a proper game and not a sweatshop+stock exchange simulator with a built-in diablo clone minigame it currently is.

I want the game to be more like Acts 1 through 3. Moreover, Acts 1 through 3 shortly after release, when fighting your way through a zone was a tense endeavor that require you to pay attention and actually fight. right now I can toss one single set of flash grenades - not even one of my Beeg Damaj skills, my basic set-up flashbomb skill - into white packs in endgame and most of the time the whole pack pops and dies - and my build isn't even that good. That's bogus. I lose maybe one map in fifteen, and half those losses are due to my own stupidity and lack of care rather than anything the game does.

The fact that there's already 10M+ DPS builds in endgame is unacceptable. The answer is not to increase drop rates of everything by a thousand percent the way you and all the other SSF goons want. It's to cut the top eighty percent of the game off, again, and pull stuff back to where you need to pay attention to progress.

If they do that? Sure, nix the XP penalty. But as it stands, why would I ever care?

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Fyzix#5732 wrote:

Racing to 100 in EA?! On top of the other problems that maps have?! On-death explosions you can't see, random one-shots from nowhere, getting one-shot from off-screen...

Okay, what about racing in leagues? Okay, cool! What about the players who DON'T want to race and simply just enjoy the game?

Jonathan REALLY didn't think this through...

If you don't care about racing then why do you care what level you are? XP loss is only detrimental in the 90's and you can beat all content before that point so if you have issues constantly dieing by that point you should reconsider your build.