The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nobody here is asking for infinite portals. 6 portal system works perfectly fine in PoE 1 and it can work fine without exp loss. The cost of dying is losing one of your 6 portals, and if you die 6 times in a row then you lose your map. That's fair. What isn't fair is getting your map deleted by a oneshot lol

Dying itself already feels bad, and if we had 6 portals then losing 1 of them would be the "punishment" for dying. There is no need for anything more than that, at least not in a Softcore league. If GGG wants to put these bad mechanics in the game so badly they can do it in a Ruthless mode. But please keep hardcore mechanics from the year 2000 away from Softcore.

The player doesn't need to be kicked in the face after they've already died, this is just anti-player, anti-fun game design.

Then the optimal way to run a map would be to open it, kill all the monsters except the last one, let that last monster kill you to reset the instance and repopulate all the monsters, then do it again. Six portals means six separate 'instances' of the same instance, and if you just do the map "normally" you're only gaining one-sixth of the reward you could be getting through strategic suicide.

Do you think people won't do that because "dying" feels bad? I guarantee you you're wrong, because it's not "dying". Sure, your HP reaches zero and you get the 'death' screen, but if you planned for and invited it in order to maximize resource acquisition for the map? It's not a "death", it's simply part of the plan. You're using the skill "Come back from the dead for free" to generate a few thousand new monsters to slaughter and loot. See the original Guild Wars and people committing suicide tens of thousands of times to get the Legendary Defender of Ascalon title by allowing their own deaths to level up the enemies to the point where they give XP for dying again.

There's also the argument against limiting the system to six portals. People accept six portals out of habit because of Path of Exile 1, but in this proposed system why would they limit portal count? As you say, the player is "getting kicked in the face". It's anti-player, anti-fun to take their map away after six deaths as much as it is after one death, ne? I guarantee people would complain about the Six Portal System as viciously as they complain about the One Portal System.

Frankly, simply being able to retry a node already feels weird and off when you weren't supposed to be able to do that.

The XP penalty is not okay because it's a retroactive punishment. Losing a bunch of XP is "Welp, you died, so now you retroactively fail your last however many maps." That's dumb, and it should go. But dying in a map should absolutely still cost you that map and all the juice you sunk into it. And at no point should your own death be actively more rewarding to you than a deathless run.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

What's the difference between someone who should reach max level and someone who shouldn't ? Where's the threshold ?

Whether or not they copied a meta build and are willing to spend countless hours doing boring,monotonous,safe content that their character is overgeared for and has near-0 risk of dying in.

I've gotten lvl100 twice in PoE 1, once from Sanctum farming and the other time with the 30% exp scarab. At least the scarab was a fun way to do it but its just a soulless grind, 0 skill involved its just about how much time you can throw at safe content(or buy some legion 5-way rotas lmaaao)

"Risk/reward" gameplay at its finest amirite?

You must be resonating with this :)
https://youtu.be/5H16ixwysA0?si=3T-JE6poMaGlZdcy

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1453R#7804 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nobody here is asking for infinite portals. 6 portal system works perfectly fine in PoE 1 and it can work fine without exp loss. The cost of dying is losing one of your 6 portals, and if you die 6 times in a row then you lose your map. That's fair. What isn't fair is getting your map deleted by a oneshot lol

Dying itself already feels bad, and if we had 6 portals then losing 1 of them would be the "punishment" for dying. There is no need for anything more than that, at least not in a Softcore league. If GGG wants to put these bad mechanics in the game so badly they can do it in a Ruthless mode. But please keep hardcore mechanics from the year 2000 away from Softcore.

The player doesn't need to be kicked in the face after they've already died, this is just anti-player, anti-fun game design.

Then the optimal way to run a map would be to open it, kill all the monsters except the last one, let that last monster kill you to reset the instance and repopulate all the monsters, then do it again. Six portals means six separate 'instances' of the same instance, and if you just do the map "normally" you're only gaining one-sixth of the reward you could be getting through strategic suicide.

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I think you are confused, they are asking for poe1 style where when you die and lose 1 portal the instance doesn't reset... its the same area with 6 attempts.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

Then the optimal way to run a map would be to open it, kill all the monsters except the last one, let that last monster kill you to reset the instance and repopulate all the monsters, then do it again. Six portals means six separate 'instances' of the same instance, and if you just do the map "normally" you're only gaining one-sixth of the reward you could be getting through strategic suicide.

What? No obviously the maps wouldn't reset when you die. I am literally saying they should just copy the 6-portal system from PoE 1. You die once and you have 5 portals left, the map is exactly as it was before you died. Nothing is reset, no league mechanics are lost, no loot is lost and bosses aren't reset.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

What's the difference between someone who should reach max level and someone who shouldn't ? Where's the threshold ?

Whether or not they copied a meta build and are willing to spend countless hours doing boring,monotonous,safe content that their character is overgeared for and has near-0 risk of dying in.

I've gotten lvl100 twice in PoE 1, once from Sanctum farming and the other time with the 30% exp scarab. At least the scarab was a fun way to do it but its just a soulless grind, 0 skill involved its just about how much time you can throw at safe content(or buy some legion 5-way rotas lmaaao)

"Risk/reward" gameplay at its finest amirite?

People copy meta builds because they are tried and true, and they will continue to do this regardless of whether or not a xp penalty exists. If you want to experiment, experiment. Nothing is stopping you, but the thought of you feeling like it might be a waste of time finding out.

People follow meta builds for leveling before the game even has an xp penalty. How does that fit into your theory? Nothing wrong with that, but that’s on the player to decide. Don’t waste your own time and blame it on something else. You opted in

Level 100 is nothing more than a badge, it's not a requirement for anything, even the season challenges only makes it one of about five different options, this is not an "endgame starts at 100" kind of game, may have been better to stop at 99 to clear the mental attachment people have to multiples of 10

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

What's the difference between someone who should reach max level and someone who shouldn't ? Where's the threshold ?

Whether or not they copied a meta build and are willing to spend countless hours doing boring,monotonous,safe content that their character is overgeared for and has near-0 risk of dying in.

I've gotten lvl100 twice in PoE 1, once from Sanctum farming and the other time with the 30% exp scarab. At least the scarab was a fun way to do it but its just a soulless grind, 0 skill involved its just about how much time you can throw at safe content(or buy some legion 5-way rotas lmaaao)

"Risk/reward" gameplay at its finest amirite?

You must be resonating with this :)
https://youtu.be/5H16ixwysA0?si=3T-JE6poMaGlZdcy

Yep the first minute of that video perfectly describes how most SC players are forced to play because of exp loss lmao

"I want to try X or Y difficult content but oh no I have 70% exp lemme level up first before engaging with any risky part of this game". It's such a bad emergent gameplay style caused by exp loss.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

What? No obviously the maps wouldn't reset when you die. I am literally saying they should just copy the 6-portal system from PoE 1. You die once and you have 5 portals left, the map is exactly as it was before you died. Nothing is reset, no league mechanics are lost, no loot is lost and bosses aren't reset.

Why not? That's how instances/areas work in Path 2. Die, and the whole thing is wiped clean and reset. Why on earth would they do a complete and utter one-eighty from the campaign to maps that way? Players have used the instance reset to help farm and bulk up right before a boss in campaign, why wouldn't they assume they could do the same in a map?

The map device providing six portals is a relic of the original game, and supposedly a limit on the number of players that can enter the instance. Why? Simpy have a single portal, and if you die you cannot use it again. Your friends can come in and help, and if they do stuff like PoE1 hideouts again where the instance itself is profitable, have the portal break after [X] uses.

Again - this is a request to take PoE2, burn it to the ground, and turn it into PoE1-just-with-better-graphics. Copying PoE1's shallow and unsatisfying endgame system into PoE2 is not the answer. Breaking the new game's rules in order to comply with the old game's rules sucks, and we shouldn't do it.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

What? No obviously the maps wouldn't reset when you die. I am literally saying they should just copy the 6-portal system from PoE 1. You die once and you have 5 portals left, the map is exactly as it was before you died. Nothing is reset, no league mechanics are lost, no loot is lost and bosses aren't reset.

Why not? That's how instances/areas work in Path 2. Die, and the whole thing is wiped clean and reset. Why on earth would they do a complete and utter one-eighty from the campaign to maps that way? Players have used the instance reset to help farm and bulk up right before a boss in campaign, why wouldn't they assume they could do the same in a map?

The map device providing six portals is a relic of the original game, and supposedly a limit on the number of players that can enter the instance. Why? Simpy have a single portal, and if you die you cannot use it again. Your friends can come in and help, and if they do stuff like PoE1 hideouts again where the instance itself is profitable, have the portal break after [X] uses.

Again - this is a request to take PoE2, burn it to the ground, and turn it into PoE1-just-with-better-graphics. Copying PoE1's shallow and unsatisfying endgame system into PoE2 is not the answer. Breaking the new game's rules in order to comply with the old game's rules sucks, and we shouldn't do it.

PoE 2 is literally "PoE 1 but with pretty graphics but bad" lol, that ship has sailed a while ago.

And the endgame is shallow and unsatisfying in PoE 2. It's so much worse compared to the Atlas I can't even believe it took them 6 months to throw this mess together.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

PoE 2 is literally "PoE 1 but with pretty graphics but bad" lol, that ship has sailed a while ago.

And the endgame is shallow and unsatisfying in PoE 2. It's so much worse compared to the Atlas I can't even believe it took them 6 months to throw this mess together.

The endgame is "shallow and unsatisfying" to PoE1 ultravets who care about literally nothing save maximizing their div/hour count by following a single hyperstrict, cripplingly over-focused Endgame Currency Juicing Plan to the exclusion of literally everything else, so they can farm a thousand divs per day running ONE sub-strategy of ONE subtype of ONE type of content on ONE map with ONE set of map mods. Just running, say...Xoph breaches with a single extremely specific and unintuitive Atlas passive and three extremely specific scarabs on Strand at T16 with +Magic packs and +Rare packs only, every single map EVER, for an entire league. or whatever the current Infinite Currency Forever glitch strat happens to be for a league.

Is the current system thin? Yeah, we don't have even half the game yet. But the bones of PoE2's endgame are already better than the first game, where a desire to do an interesting variety of content meant you were nothing but a complete loser who should just uninstall forever. The last time PoE1's endgame was actually interesting was War for the Atlas; PoE2's Cataclysm is already better than Conquerors ever was, and whatever the hell is going on with the Maven, Eater and Exarch doesn't even merit a name.