The reason why XP penalty exists and why it's not for everyone

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KuroSF#6521 wrote:

There is no "right" or "wrong" side of the XP-loss debate. THere are only preferences.

I personally prefer XP loss.

I have an SSF 86 Monk, and I like how XP loss makes me play the game differently, and think more about builds and strategy. If it was not present, I would be much more apt to just shrug off a death and just keep plowing stupidly ahead.

Tell me how you feel about XP loss at 97.

I'll wait.

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

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Bacon_Overlord#1834 wrote:

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

The paragon board is blizzard's answer to all the screaming that they can't get max level within a few days. It's good design from that front, but really bad in every other way. That board fizzles into nothing like no one's business but hey, there are 300 points, they have to be worth something right...

You're kidding, right?

300 paragon points is a massive amount of power increase and the main reason there are such varied builds in D4.

Do you NEED 300 paragon points? God no... 230 is enough for most builds to shine. The point though is that 300 points is achievable in D4. In POE 2 for most people it is not.

lol

I guess you didn't play VoH, literally everyone playing the same thing

And 70 paragon points are somehow optional but 2 passive points aren't? You just want to be max level that's all. You want that nice happy number to look at

The bottom line here is:

Wasted time.

If I want to grind for 2 months to hit paragon 300 in D4 I can do that. There are no exp penalties. If I die, I get frustrated, but adjust my build (no respec costs and an armory) and figure it out.

But... in POE 2 if I make a mistake I LOSE PROGRESS. That's the issue. I just wasted my time with no way to make up for it or recover it.

It's not about whether those 2 points help. If someone is having FUN in a game they should be allowed to continue having fun without levying some kind of progression gates for absolutely no reason.

If you don't die there's no progression gate

If it matters that much to you, play it like it's hardcore

Me? Doesn't matter unless that's what I'm aiming for. And a month down the line, I might level up again, and it'll be a nice thing, like a divine dropping

ok, more like a slight item upgrade

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

If you don't die there's no progression gate

I think my eyes just rolled so hard I saw my brain.

Is this parody?

Asking for a friend.

20chars

Not sure why it double-posted.

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Bacon_Overlord#1834 wrote:

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

If you don't die there's no progression gate

I think my eyes just rolled so hard I saw my brain.

Is this parody?

Asking for a friend.

there is a big red flashing arrow next to level 100 that is shouting "TO GET THIS YOU MUST AVOID DEATH" and somehow that's news

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Tell me how you feel about XP loss at 97.

I'll wait.

When I posted this in the 70s, people said "wait until you're 85". Now I'm 86 and you say wait until I'm 97.

I will always prefer XP loss, because my enjoyment comes from the *challenge* of *playing* the game not *winning* the game.

I am playing in SSF voluntarily, because I feel trade elague makes the game too easy and focuses it away from gameplay systems and towards economy.

I played POE1 for 6 years without doing maps, because the most enjoyable part of POE1 for me was doing the league minigame mechanics, which I could do in Act 5 and then move on. (I never enjoyed the mindless combat during the campaign grind or the inability to respec builds, two things that are massively fixed in POE2)

And I've spent decent amounts of money both on POE1 and POE2.. more than I've spent on D3/D4 and every other ARPG combined. So GGG's model is working for me as a customer.

I prefer XP loss and I always will.

I think there is a discussion to be had about the *amount* of XP loss, or how it scales, but I think it belongs.

To me, the only decent alternative to XP loss, would be making Maps more of an "Extraction" model, where you have to complete the map to get ANY XP or Loot out of the map. If they did this, one could only lose the XP and loot from the map, which would be somewhat less harsh at high levels. I'd be fine with this, but it doesn't fit into their model very well to have you lose loot.

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KuroSF#6521 wrote:

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Tell me how you feel about XP loss at 97.

I'll wait.

When I posted this in the 70s, people said "wait until you're 85". Now I'm 86 and you say wait until I'm 97.

I will always prefer XP loss, because my enjoyment comes from *playing* the game not *winning* the game.

I played POE1 for 6 years without doing maps, because the most enjoyable part of POE1 for me was doing the league minigame mechanics, which I could do in Act 5 and then move on. (I never enjoyed the mindless combat during the campaign grind or the inability to respec builds, two things that are massively fixed in POE2)

And I've spent decent amounts of money both on POE1 and POE2.. more than I've spent on D3/D4 and every other ARPG combined. So GGG's model is working for me as a customer.

Having this take as lvl 86 is lmfao. Nobody cares who told u this at lvl 70. The point still stands.

losing 10% at lvl 86 is literally 2 unjuiced t15 maps. About 10 minutes.

Losing 10% at lvl 97 is probably a whole day of mapping.


You're still blind to the actual data.

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

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Bacon_Overlord#1834 wrote:

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Strangehill#1736 wrote:

If you don't die there's no progression gate

I think my eyes just rolled so hard I saw my brain.

Is this parody?

Asking for a friend.

there is a big red flashing arrow next to level 100 that is shouting "TO GET THIS YOU MUST AVOID DEATH" and somehow that's news

Absolutely false. That's called "hardcore".

You simply have to push through death after death, losing progress and slogging through the same content for dozens of hours.

Just moreso than if there wasn't a death penalty and you didn't actually LOSE progress.

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Having this take as lvl 86 is lmfao

Why do you find it hard to understand other people are different than you?

Even if I never reach 100, in 10 years of playing POE2, I will sill prefer XP loss, bceause I prefer how it makes me think and feel about the game.

In all likelyhood, I will be switching to hardcore SSF either immediately after reaching 100 and killing the pinnacle boss, or even before that, because generally I find all PVE games too easy. (My #1 game played is League of Legends, because a PvP ladder is more challenge)

I also prefer that XP loss makes a "harder" game that is not hardcore.

I play SSF electively, because trade makes acquiring loot too easy.

My main gripe with POE1 (non hardcore) is that it is too easy.

I even think hardcore pause-logout is a cheap mechanic that should be removed. though I also understand why it's there, because this would probably make the hardcore playerbase so small as to be irrelevant.

I would like to see a POE2 ladder ranked by "playtime to reach level", which would actually show skill in the game, instead of just no-life-ing.

I understand why some people don't like XP loss. I would have no issue if there were a third really-softcore league that had no XP loss. I just hope there is some league with XP loss, because I think it provides a more resonable difficulty boundary than hardcore most of the time.... and this opinion will not change even if XP loss prevents me from ever reaching 100.

Regarless of what our preferences are, I'm sure GGG will continue to watch the player numbers and sentiment about this. So far, XP Loss doesn't seem to be stopping people from playing the game.

The number one thing slot machine players would ask for, if you asked them, is to win more. And yet they keep playing.