Do you want slower gameplay or not GGG?

"

Assababud#2808 wrote:

Johnathon has said they need to smooth out the transition from tedious and boring to fun and quick gameplay in the endgame. You're supposed to get to the point where you become a god. Feel free to view their recent podcasts if you don't believe me

He said they need to make a tedious and boring stage longer, because game stopping to be boring way too fast. But wait, he never said anything like that, he call it "meaningful gameplay", not "tedious and boring".

"

Climet#7103 wrote:

Calibrate Monster movement speed to be around the same as the Character movement speed, which is generally around 30% increased from base, currently monsters are significantly faster than the character, which forces builds to one-shot the screens, in other words killing monsters before they reach you.

The easiest way to start with this would be to remove '#% Increased Monster Movement Speed' mod from the map mod pool.

Monster speed is one factor here and the agro range of monsters is another factor. The combination of the two makes it so that monsters are charging you before you even see them. A lot of classes have setup based combos that require you to have 1-2 abilities in place before you hit the big bang button. Yet we don't actually have time to use these abilities.

They need to bring these setups to the forefront and prevent the skills that are one button spam from coming into practice.

"

Assababud#2808 wrote:
Johnathon has said they need to smooth out the transition from tedious and boring to fun and quick gameplay in the endgame. You're supposed to get to the point where you become a god. Feel free to view their recent podcasts if you don't believe me

Sure there recent podcast states that you should become a god, that does not mean you HAVE to speed across the map in 10 seconds obliterating everything on the screen before you even know what is there.

All this really means is that when you enter a map or boss you would not be concerned about losing, providing you don't make a stupid mistake. This can be achieved even without the zoom zoom explode 2 screens of mobs in less than a second system they have now. Improving defenses and just adjusting the AI of Monster interactions as state above would be enough to bridge that gap. Considering he has also stated that they wanted the game to be slower and each fight to be more impactful I would think this is the option they were looking for.

I don't understand what the point of making PoE 2 was, it's essentially ended up the exact same as PoE 1 in terms of gameplay.

They could've provided players with an amazing coop experience for instance compared to POE 1. That could've been the sole focus of the game. Yet they actively put in mechanics that make coop play unenjoyable, tedious.

Sitting around watching a friend clear a map after you die isn't engaging, and all it does is incentivize solo play.

But then they'll sit there and tell you that the reason the game has an economy, trading/crafting. Is because they want players to interact.


The Coop experience in this game continues to be horrid though. With people largely only playing with eachother while leveling. All they've managed to do is create a copy of POE 1, where the sole focus of the game is solo play, and grinding. Not sure what the point of the last 6 years of development were for when they already have a game suited to that style of play.

When people come in and say this though. They get attacked on the forums. PoE 1 exists for solo play and grinding. Make PoE 2 a different style game that appeals to more. Change up the gameplay. Keep the best systems from PoE 1, like the unique builds and the passive tree. The world.

They need to keep PoE1 and PoE2 as different experiences. Right now, PoE2 is just PoE1 with less stuff... which doesn't make much sense whatsoever.

90% of the abilities in PoE2 are quite literally useless, and will never be good, unless they do something about the zoom gameplay. Slower abilities, setup abilities, damage over time, etc. are never going to be useful when blowing up the entire screen instantly is the only way to play the game.

They need to scrap the endgame entirely. Just erase it from existence.

Then, focus on the campaign and adding new classes + skills.

After that, balance everything around the campaign and add endgame elements little by little, making sure that your game is not a one hit screen clear fest.

That's a good early access mindset. Making an endgame on a unfinished game is counterproductive.

"

Climet#7103 wrote:

I just meant to make the monster movement balanced around the 80 percentile of character movement speed, currently all monsters are significantly faster than the characer.

You walking walking walking and then...
Ayo wassup brrrr the fast af boi RARE approaches you
Gently taps you instantly. Stun. Ignite. Frozen. Movement speed slowed down by 90%. -75% elemental resistances.
Gently taps you again. No energy shield.
Gently taps you again. No mana. No life. You dead.

Usuallz it boils down to powercreep vs power escalation.
In RPG and especially ARPG people want to see progression.
But how can you progress once you cap a defense?

Lets see how each of the classes progress endgame:
1. reach 75% res at least fire/cold/lightning
2. Get your game changing keystone: that revolutionise your defense.
3. Reach yous character defense cap: block or evasion
4. Cap chaos
5. ???

Nothing else left than health and damage now.

Not sure how to balance endgame out at this point, because the only challenge left is oneshotting anyone.
Lets say a warrior have 90% block. So all that left is a 10% chance to kill him.

Evasion classes are the same: there's a small chance to make their game difficult.

At least in the current state.

Once you have Max res, max block, high hp and enemy cant even chip your hp away anymore.
According to footage Ive seen boss mechanics are only meaningful because they have a huge invincibility + dance-dance revolution nuke phase.


Imho without recoding the endgame, just some tuning needed. Curerntly we have minor defensive mechanics that should be meaningful, but they arent:
stun threshold, resistance against elementals ailments, etc...
Same for the enemies.
Each class should be strong against a type of enemies, and should have counter mechanics vs something else.

However dps counters everything. You don't need to worry about any type of enemies if they're dead before they can react to you.
On the other hand what the point to "counter" an enemy type when they literally swarm you?

A way of creating meaningful endgame combat is to have "traps" that filter out certain enemy types.
But in that case skillslots and support gem amount arent enough.

Not to mention that how many endgame mechanic is about spawning hordes in your face?
- Ritual
- Expedition
- Delirium
- Breach

The last two are on time limit too... -_- And ritual limits your movement area...


So yeah... good luck making "meaningful" combat where the combat is decided before you even put the keystone to the Map Device.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

I don't understand what the point of making PoE 2 was, it's essentially ended up the exact same as PoE 1 in terms of gameplay.

They could've provided players with an amazing coop experience for instance compared to POE 1. That could've been the sole focus of the game. Yet they actively put in mechanics that make coop play unenjoyable, tedious.

Sitting around watching a friend clear a map after you die isn't engaging, and all it does is incentivize solo play.

But then they'll sit there and tell you that the reason the game has an economy, trading/crafting. Is because they want players to interact.


The Coop experience in this game continues to be horrid though. With people largely only playing with eachother while leveling. All they've managed to do is create a copy of POE 1, where the sole focus of the game is solo play, and grinding. Not sure what the point of the last 6 years of development were for when they already have a game suited to that style of play.

When people come in and say this though. They get attacked on the forums. PoE 1 exists for solo play and grinding. Make PoE 2 a different style game that appeals to more. Change up the gameplay. Keep the best systems from PoE 1, like the unique builds and the passive tree. The world.

Agreed, POE2 is just a waste of a game and pointless.

Agreed. I came for the slower pace and fun melee, and both turned out to be a lie

"

Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

"

Assababud#2808 wrote:

Johnathon has said they need to smooth out the transition from tedious and boring to fun and quick gameplay in the endgame. You're supposed to get to the point where you become a god. Feel free to view their recent podcasts if you don't believe me

But wait, he never said anything like that, he call it "meaningful gameplay", not "tedious and boring".

Semantics.

"

Suchka_777#4336 wrote:

He said they need to make a tedious and boring stage longer, because game stopping to be boring way too fast.

Hence why he said he wants to smooth it out.