The GGG / TenCent "Vision" Needs Glasses. (Video Act 3 Cruel Rootdredge v Cold Huntress)

That video is brutal but looks pretty similar to some of my fights in act 1. Obviously you need more damage as this was unbearable - although some call it "meaningful". I don't know if your gem setup is fine, but you 100% should not need perfect setup in act 3 in game so that should not matter in first place. So you need either better weapon (other gear - ring, gloves) which will give you more damage and/or cold penetration nodes on tree. Using basic attack in act 3 as most viable damage source is nonsense and should not be happening.

You could have avoid stuff better but that is not solving problem that you should be doing about 5 times more damage for me to consider it okish fight. And shitty damage totally don't need to be your fault - if you drop only crap gear there is not much you can do about it other than to buy something usable which is just outright stupid but unfortunate "meaningful" reality of this game.

"

BadAssTom#2893 wrote:

That video is brutal but looks pretty similar to some of my fights in act 1. Obviously you need more damage as this was unbearable - although some call it "meaningful". I don't know if your gem setup is fine, but you 100% should not need perfect setup in act 3 in game so that should not matter in first place. So you need either better weapon (other gear - ring, gloves) which will give you more damage and/or cold penetration nodes on tree. Using basic attack in act 3 as most viable damage source is nonsense and should not be happening.

You could have avoid stuff better but that is not solving problem that you should be doing about 5 times more damage for me to consider it okish fight. And shitty damage totally don't need to be your fault - if you drop only crap gear there is not much you can do about it other than to buy something usable which is just outright stupid but unfortunate "meaningful" reality of this game.

You are right on target. I intentionally played the newbie experience and doing what GGG designed in the synergies. The result is underwhelming damage. As for penetration, I have all of those that are reachable. The Passive tree is focused on attack speed, evasion and dex. The gear is what you would expect given what has dropped. The Exalts just dont drop. I have enough Regals to sink a battleship due to rare harvesting. The spear I have is as good as I can get. I have a couple of basees in my vault but lack the exalts to make the gear better. This isn't just a SSF difficulty since I almost always play SSF in POE. I am three levels above the content. I am used to farming things like alchemy orbs in POE1 and other currency used in crafting gear but this game just doesn't have that possibility. I need exalts and I need them to roll correctly. If they dont I am out of luck. I have recycled over a dozen spears that rolled useless mods like reduced attributes. There is also nowhere to farm exalts as they only drop due to .... yep, you guessed it ... RNG.

So if I were to show gear you would say "Wow, get more phys damage." In fact another player said exactly that and my reply was predictable, "Where? There is no crafting in this game, just RNG." In POE1 I could jump to my hideout, use the crafting bench and burn some transmuteds or augments or other currency to craft the resists, damage and so on that I need. Not in POE2. My crafting is limited to runes and even the rune drops are RNG.

This isn't EA growing pains. This is because of INTENTIONAL decisions made by GGG in this game.

"

Kraythax#2592 wrote:

"

BadAssTom#2893 wrote:

That video is brutal but looks pretty similar to some of my fights in act 1. Obviously you need more damage as this was unbearable - although some call it "meaningful". I don't know if your gem setup is fine, but you 100% should not need perfect setup in act 3 in game so that should not matter in first place. So you need either better weapon (other gear - ring, gloves) which will give you more damage and/or cold penetration nodes on tree. Using basic attack in act 3 as most viable damage source is nonsense and should not be happening.

You could have avoid stuff better but that is not solving problem that you should be doing about 5 times more damage for me to consider it okish fight. And shitty damage totally don't need to be your fault - if you drop only crap gear there is not much you can do about it other than to buy something usable which is just outright stupid but unfortunate "meaningful" reality of this game.

You are right on target. I intentionally played the newbie experience and doing what GGG designed in the synergies. The result is underwhelming damage. As for penetration, I have all of those that are reachable. The Passive tree is focused on attack speed, evasion and dex. The gear is what you would expect given what has dropped. The Exalts just dont drop. I have enough Regals to sink a battleship due to rare harvesting. The spear I have is as good as I can get. I have a couple of basees in my vault but lack the exalts to make the gear better. This isn't just a SSF difficulty since I almost always play SSF in POE. I am three levels above the content. I am used to farming things like alchemy orbs in POE1 and other currency used in crafting gear but this game just doesn't have that possibility. I need exalts and I need them to roll correctly. If they dont I am out of luck. I have recycled over a dozen spears that rolled useless mods like reduced attributes. There is also nowhere to farm exalts as they only drop due to .... yep, you guessed it ... RNG.

So if I were to show gear you would say "Wow, get more phys damage." In fact another player said exactly that and my reply was predictable, "Where? There is no crafting in this game, just RNG." In POE1 I could jump to my hideout, use the crafting bench and burn some transmuteds or augments or other currency to craft the resists, damage and so on that I need. Not in POE2. My crafting is limited to runes and even the rune drops are RNG.

This isn't EA growing pains. This is because of INTENTIONAL decisions made by GGG in this game.

Indeed, fact is that bench with even tripled or quadrupled costs would still be better than RNG we experiencing right now with slot machine gambling slams. Even if affixes on bench would be mediocre tier, it would still be superior to what common experience during regular leveling and campaign is atm, as in your case.

idk i didnt even noticed this boss mechanics. contageon with essence drain literally melted him and unearth scorpions blocked hell of him.
basically best bet is to get somekinda distraction on hand and stay away from explosions.
i had much more issues with monkey with big pillar that had 2 shot dmg and WAY to big tracking slam with too much speed in general (i have +30% speed) an i am decent at dodging but that boss was balanced pretty questionable.

"

TOP_BOMJIK#4977 wrote:

idk i didnt even noticed this boss mechanics. contageon with essence drain literally melted him and unearth scorpions blocked hell of him.
basically best bet is to get somekinda distraction on hand and stay away from explosions.
i had much more issues with monkey with big pillar that had 2 shot dmg and WAY to big tracking slam with too much speed in general (i have +30% speed) an i am decent at dodging but that boss was balanced pretty questionable.

Yep. My lich melted him. That is the point of the thread. They are going to nerf my lich and yours. They will nerf lightning spear. They wont be buffing these weak skills to make them comparabile. Therein lies the problem. Its one of philosophy of the devs. That is the entire point of the thread.

Yep. My lich melted him. That is the point of the thread. They are going to nerf my lich and yours. They will nerf lightning spear. They wont be buffing these weak skills to make them comparabile. Therein lies the problem. Its one of philosophy of the devs. That is the entire point of the thread. [/quote]

well i am intentionally running subpar build and seeking ways to make it broken in a way that its impossible to nerf. i run blood mage not lich, blood mage got the best stuff while others feels like boring debuffs

"

TOP_BOMJIK#4977 wrote:

"

Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Yep. My lich melted him. That is the point of the thread. They are going to nerf my lich and yours. They will nerf lightning spear. They wont be buffing these weak skills to make them comparabile. Therein lies the problem. Its one of philosophy of the devs. That is the entire point of the thread.

well i am intentionally running subpar build and seeking ways to make it broken in a way that its impossible to nerf. i run blood mage not lich, blood mage got the best stuff while others feels like boring debuffs

Until Jonathan shows us what he thinks the pacing of the game should be, and he hasn't, by playing the game on a char that has the proper pacing, we are all just theorizing. Since they haven't streamed a playthrough yet we have to conclude one of four things.

1. The simply don't want to do it because its just a product and might as well be a lawn chair to them, thus game play is irrelevant.
2. They cant agree on the speed they want.
3. They know that the speed they want to achieve is not possible with the game.
4. They know the speed they want, know how it should feel to them but they also know that the community would revolt if they saw it actually demonstrated by GGG and codified as the goal.

Personally I believe it is option 4. What is more, I think they look at the video in the OP and say "Yep, that's what we want for every class" and they KNOW FOR A FACT the customer base will evaporate to less than 1% if they admit it.

My goal? get them to pick a speed, demonstrate it and shoot for that with every skill and triangulate their Vision with the vision of their customers.

Until Jonathan shows us what he thinks the pacing of the game should be, and he hasn't, by playing the game on a char that has the proper pacing, we are all just theorizing. Since they haven't streamed a playthrough yet we have to conclude one of four things.

1. The simply don't want to do it because its just a product and might as well be a lawn chair to them, thus game play is irrelevant.
2. They cant agree on the speed they want.
3. They know that the speed they want to achieve is not possible with the game.
4. They know the speed they want, know how it should feel to them but they also know that the community would revolt if they saw it actually demonstrated by GGG and codified as the goal.

Personally I believe it is option 4. What is more, I think they look at the video in the OP and say "Yep, that's what we want for every class" and they KNOW FOR A FACT the customer base will evaporate to less than 1% if they admit it.

My goal? get them to pick a speed, demonstrate it and shoot for that with every skill and triangulate their Vision with the vision of their customers. [/quote]


there is big question yet: why in the duck all classes are must be at same speed? like in classic arpgs chars have more speed depending on their class and some classes are not intended to be mega killers

"

Kraythax#2592 wrote:

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

"

Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Q. Why didnt you use Parry and FOF to make ice explosion.
A. Because that only works in small packs with a small numbers of enemies. In a large pack you get stun locked and don't even parry. Dont believe me? Go play it.

I have been playing it. You might need to buff your stun threshold, possibly by picking up some parry nodes on the tree if you're getting stunned so easily. The two ways that I use parry are whenever I'm fighting a single rare, I will use it repeatedly with FoF, or if I'm getting swarmed I parry and follow up with FoF. If you can't use it like that then you must be doing something different to me.

I would be happy to see your recorded version of this fight. Please show your gear, passive tree and skill config in one take. I would never use parry with more than 2 enemies at a time which, outside of boss fights, never happens. Standing still with a dinner plate up is a good way to die repeatedly. And yes, I have many parry nodes in the tree. Nearly all of the reasonably accessible ones.

You might have ways to make this build work better but if a user cannot pick up a class, play the game without some expert guiding them through the process then the game is dead. 90% of the players wont do this. Furthermore this fight isn't by far the most funny with this build which is encouraged by GGG through the synergies and constraints GGG put in the game. Lastly this build isn't nearly as bad as some of the crippled builds in the game. I would say this is mid tier between the screen clearing skills like Lich chaos / lightning spear and rolling slam. But the very point of the post is that there were these meta builds last league and they all got hammer nerfed.

GGG most likely looks at the gameplay in this thread and says "Yep, that's what we want" but they don't want to admit it. In interview after interview they are asked "Well how long do you feel it should take for the campaign and what should the power look like?" They always evade the question because the real answer "The campaign should take 50 to 100 hours" and "Well each map should be a tactical challenge to complete" are answers that they know 90% of their player base wont accept.

You can also see the plethora of supportive replies which tells you I am not the only one encountering issues like this.

Now you may be happy with what some fans call "slower" combat. I call it boring tedium. Can I beat the game eventually? Sure. Will I more likely get bored and quit? Absolutely. The fans seem to want to mix two incompatible gaming types, Dark Souls and fast-paced ARPGs but its clear from the numbers that ARPG players in the VAST majority don't want that. Dark souls doesn't send 40 whites that can take you out in 2 hits at once. If they did, Souls Players would be upset. Sodium is great. Water is great. Mixing them is not so great.

You know what, sure... I've been leveling a rituatlist, I should be able to get them there kinda soon. Although I already know your argument ahead of time, lol... "You think there's enough gamers out there who know how to do something like this to sustain PoE 2?"

My answer though, would be yes.

Here's the thing. A lot of people have not learned the habit that most PoE 1 players have, of making a build based upon one skill and spamming one button, to the point where using multiple buttons actually comes naturally to them. Many people are willing to read the skills, and are interested in using them interactively, in the manner suggested by the in game video guides. I hate to tell you this, but this game has 90k positive reviews on steam because a bunch of people who haven't bothered to come to these forums have been able to just pick up the game and play it, actually. I know that probably bruises your ego, but it shouldn't. Different people like different things in their games, it's no big deal.

The efficiency meta of PoE 1 has taught a lot of people bad habits regarding how they approach games in general, but PoE 2 in particular. The whole divs/hour concept that many people in these forums treat as a given? Not a thing for a bunch of people, because they don't see gaming as a job, they see it as something you do for fun. Despite being here, I've managed to resist this perspective, lol. You see the "slower" combat as boring tedium because you're just waiting for your next dopamine fix from loot drops instead of getting that dopamine fix from the combat itself. Whereas I see the "faster" combat as boring tedium because if the fight is over in a second, I wouldn't say that I saw combat. Any time something like that happens, I'm basically feeling like... when's the actual game going to happen?

A lot of people disagree with me in this forum, it's true. But for a lot of people in this forum, PoE 2 is just a waiting room for 3.26. The vast majority of people who played PoE 2 and reviewed it positively never played PoE 1 at all; after all, the launch had way more people playing than for any previous PoE 1 league. People like to talk about how 90% of players are gone... guess what? That's how it has always worked with every PoE 1 league, lol. All these predictions of doom and gloom for GGG have been happening with every league GGG has ever made.

If you want to see the perspective of most people who actually like the game, take a look at the reviews on steam which are still overall positive despite the recent mostly negative ones, have a look on youtube for people who aren't massive PoE 1 streamers and so on. I know it seems like the perspective within this forum is the way most people look at the game, but this place is an echo chamber.

Btw, I haven't been trying to insult your gameplay with my suggestions, I'm just trying to give you advice. In a way, I'd agree with your idea that your gameplay is "the vision", but also, the fact that you can improve and finish that fight more quickly as you get better at the game is another part of the vision.

Your attitude needs a change though, that I will happily insult; you're convinced that anyone who is a little bit better than you is either a gaming god or some kind of expert, which is very arrogant. I'd say this game in particular is my jam, but nonetheless I'm only slightly better than average really. It's like at no point do you consider the idea that you could get better, it's always the game's fault.

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

You know what, sure... I've been leveling a rituatlist, I should be able to get them there kinda soon. Although I already know your argument ahead of time, lol... "You think there's enough gamers out there who know how to do something like this to sustain PoE 2?"

My answer though, would be yes.

The numbers would disagree with you. Hemorrhaging 97% of your playerbase in 1 month is death to a live services game. Whole projects have been cancelled for that.

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

Here's the thing. A lot of people have not learned the habit that most PoE 1 players have, of making a build based upon one skill and spamming one button, to the point where using multiple buttons actually comes naturally to them. Many people are willing to read the skills, and are interested in using them interactively, in the manner suggested by the in game video guides. I hate to tell you this, but this game has 90k positive reviews on steam because a bunch of people who haven't bothered to come to these forums have been able to just pick up the game and play it, actually. I know that probably bruises your ego, but it shouldn't. Different people like different things in their games, it's no big deal.

Spamming one button? I dont know many POE1 builds that do that. There are outliers that do weird thinngs with mechanics like ward loop but almost all builds rely on a particular rotation or combination. Righteous fire, for example, slaughters trash but then you have to weave in curses and attack skills to take out rares. Frost bolt towers rely on precise skill rotation timing. I would guess less than 5% of top tier POE1 builds under say 20 divine are 1 button triggers. Now if they put 200 divine into the build they should be entitled to one shot maven. This is a game, not a competitive arena.

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

The efficiency meta of PoE 1 has taught a lot of people bad habits regarding how they approach games in general, but PoE 2 in particular. The whole divs/hour concept that many people in these forums treat as a given? Not a thing for a bunch of people, because they don't see gaming as a job, they see it as something you do for fun. Despite being here, I've managed to resist this perspective, lol. You see the "slower" combat as boring tedium because you're just waiting for your next dopamine fix from loot drops instead of getting that dopamine fix from the combat itself. Whereas I see the "faster" combat as boring tedium because if the fight is over in a second, I wouldn't say that I saw combat. Any time something like that happens, I'm basically feeling like... when's the actual game going to happen?

I dont play trade league in general and this char was only in trade league becuase I didnt want to have my stash in SSF available. Trade league is for people that want to buy their builds and who am I and who are YOU to deny them their fun? Does it take anything away from you if they speend 100 div and buy uniques to a perfect spark build and one shot Arbiter? Why do you care? I dont. I only care if I can have fun in a game and this game is near impossible to have fun UNLESS I choose meta skills. In POE1 I can get pretty darn deep (I am a delve enhjoyer) with a non meta build that I craft on my own. I enjoy that crafting. Is it perfect? No way. Is it fun? Yeah. If someone wants to buy a build and get twice as deep as me it doesnt bother me one bit.

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

A lot of people disagree with me in this forum, it's true. But for a lot of people in this forum, PoE 2 is just a waiting room for 3.26. The vast majority of people who played PoE 2 and reviewed it positively never played PoE 1 at all; after all, the launch had way more people playing than for any previous PoE 1 league. People like to talk about how 90% of players are gone... guess what? That's how it has always worked with every PoE 1 league, lol. All these predictions of doom and gloom for GGG have been happening with every league GGG has ever made.

I would doubt most POE newbies know what 3.26 is before this. I hope they will try it if it drops. Then they will be back here agreeing with me.

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

If you want to see the perspective of most people who actually like the game, take a look at the reviews on steam which are still overall positive despite the recent mostly negative ones, have a look on youtube for people who aren't massive PoE 1 streamers and so on. I know it seems like the perspective within this forum is the way most people look at the game, but this place is an echo chamber.

GGG is the only game company that has fans that say things like "Well the streamers that have raved about your game for years and marketed it dont matter." Mind blown. Maybe ... just maybe ... those streamers are right and you are just too new to POE to see mistakes being made that we have PERSONALLY witnessed earlier. As for people that like the game, I can think of the most unpopular failures in gaming history and they still had people who yelled "The game is fine" right up until the project was cancelled or servers taken offline.

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

Btw, I haven't been trying to insult your gameplay with my suggestions, I'm just trying to give you advice. In a way, I'd agree with your idea that your gameplay is "the vision", but also, the fact that you can improve and finish that fight more quickly as you get better at the game is another part of the vision.

What I don't understand is how many times I have to say "I played this build intentionally because those are the synergies GGG put into the game in an obvious desire to have you play that way." Fangs of frost needs parry to be anything and parry is a death trap. Glacial lance is nothing without frenzy charges, requirements on skills like cold snap raise your int reqs so high that they make no sense in a dex character. All the defensive nodes reachable by huntress stress evasion, not evasion / es. The passive tree makes is stupid expensive to venture out of your class. The goal of this play through was to show what GGG has a vision and point out how the vision is junk wrong. My first char in this patch was a chaos unearth lich. She has a heck of a time with bosses because of the damage but she slaughtered Rootdredge in about 10 seconds. But GGG will nerf my lich and your lightninng spear. They are shooting not for a better build but for this.

"

Kalistri#2788 wrote:

Your attitude needs a change though, that I will happily insult; you're convinced that anyone who is a little bit better than you is either a gaming god or some kind of expert, which is very arrogant. I'd say this game in particular is my jam, but nonetheless I'm only slightly better than average really. It's like at no point do you consider the idea that you could get better, it's always the game's fault.

I have been on the internet for nearly 40 years. I am immune to "peer pressure" on the internet. I legit dont care what you think about me. I am aware that some people think saying "Oh really? Prove it!" is toxic. I dont care. Usually its people that cant prove it. 2000+ views later and go knows how many replies and nno one has posted a Cold Huntress taking on Rootdredge in anything like a reasonable amount of time. In fact they haven't posted at all. I am simply supposed to take their word for it? Nope. The suggestions that were posted I tried and posted the videos of them not working. The game is designed this way. Anyone who has tried those skills knows it. If they flamed me they wont post "Hey Kraythax I ran up an SSF cols huntress and oh boy you were right."

The hard reality of the flamers is that I just laugh and dont care because they bumped my thread, a thread that I really want people who work for GGG to see. If someone wanted to prove me to be an idiot, it would be simple. OBS studio is free as is a youtube account.

As for me I haven't taken this char further because it is too boring. I am playing Expedition 33, a game made by an Indie studio that cares about their game, not a AAA studio. I will play 3.26 when it drops and maybe finally kill Shaper. I usually like delve more and delve bosses but given TenCent I may not have many leagues left to enjoy POE. I have killed most of the other pinnacles but never shaper. Seems I should pick that up if nothing but the personal experience.

And thanks for the bump.