Suggestion to Make Stormbind Stronger/More Enjoyable

The current lack of increased mana cost multipliers is extremely punishing for Stormbind, as mana costs are either extremely difficult to increase, when not using Indigon, or impossible to maintain, when using Indigon. There's no happy medium. I believe it's part of the reason why it's played so infrequently, the main scaling method for the gem is "just buy an Indigon", which is ridiculous considering it's a rare drop from Uber Elder.

My suggestion is a modifier on Stormbind that causes Less/reduced mana cost multipliers to increase cost instead. This has the benefit of synergising well with Hierophant's Sanctuary of thought, which is usually great for archmage or Manabond builds, but terrible for Stormbind. The node itself is effectively 50% less damage for indigon-less stormbind because it takes you twice as long to charge the runes, despite the increased AoE being amazing.

This way, it's still unique from Manabond in that your maximum mana pool is not nearly as important as the amount of mana you can spend and recover. Investment in mana is still really important, but the way they invest into mana is really different.

If Manaforged Arrows isn't going to be broken by it, maybe it could be something like a support gem instead of being limited to Stormbind, but I don't know the numbers behind scaling that skill. Then, Indigon could be an upgrade for Stormbind, freeing up a support gem slot for something with bigger numbers, rather than it being the only possible method for scaling.

fellow Stormbind enjoyer here

this skill has been cursed since the inception

when it launched, most players were completely blind to the fact Stormbind's scaling vector is +AOE and forced the classic crit/damage route (to the point that high profile streamers suggested Concentrated Effect as the primary damage link..)

it didnt work and the skill got bad press

but some knew, some knew that the trick is to get 16 or 25 even overlaps and up the mana cost with prophecy gloves: Doedre's Malevolence - (https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Doedre%27s_Malevolence#Legacy_variants)

Indigon was always tricky with this skill/setup because the cost skyrocketed in an instant and you got one blurp of damage and then nothing - exactly as you described

to cut it short: GGG nerfed the gloves (I think Voidbringers had similar mechanism at some point) to keep it from getting popular and provided pretty much nothing (well, theyve added increased mana cost to the tree) to counterbalance it

i still think that the skill is VERY playable without Indigon and that the key is getting AOE, cast speed and ofc increased mana costs (top end includes reflected-crafted rings with '+mana to increased channeling skills'), but in current game when mobs teleport/respawn around you the mechanic of 'one damage window' becomes a problem (ignite version should switch to other skill, Stormbind overlaps, not combines the runes so it is bad ignite skill)


mana in general is a problematic mechanic and it is already stronger than classic non-mana caster in pretty much every way. so any change should be skill specific as archmage/ivory tower/manaforged really dont need any buff (GGG however is imo fully aware that Sanctuary of Thought is precisely a golden ascendancy for this skill and will keep its downside)

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

i still think that the skill is VERY playable without Indigon and that the key is getting AOE, cast speed and ofc increased mana costs (top end includes reflected-crafted rings with '+mana to increased channeling skills'), but in current game when mobs teleport/respawn around you the mechanic of 'one damage window' becomes a problem (ignite version should switch to other skill, Stormbind overlaps, not combines the runes so it is bad ignite skill)

I tried a hell of a lot of things to get it to feel ok without Indigon, spurred on by the absolutely disgusting price of it during Phrecia. Never could get it to feel quite right, however. It's funny you mention ignite though, that's something I tried to make work as well, Shaper of Flames. Idea was to sacrifice the overlaps (because mana costs too low) and try to leverage the insane flat damage/ more ailment multiplier it has. Was never able to get the damage to where I wanted it though. The damage was ok, certainly not going to do Ubers, but the character was far too fragile for the DoT playstyle to feel reasonable. Funnily enough, harbinger (phrecia league) actually felt the best out of the lot.

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but some knew, some knew that the trick is to get 16 or 25 even overlaps and up the mana cost with prophecy gloves: Doedre's Malevolence - (https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Doedre%27s_Malevolence#Legacy_variants)

to cut it short: GGG nerfed the gloves (I think Voidbringers had similar mechanism at some point) to keep it from getting popular and provided pretty much nothing (well, theyve added increased mana cost to the tree) to counterbalance it

I don't think overlaps are the way to go about it anymore tbh, not if you don't use an Indigon. Charging that many squares without an insane amount of mana cost isn't feasible anymore unfortunately. Yeah, voidbringers had 50% increased mana cost, but they changed it to instead cause you to "lose mana", instead of giving a large mana cost increase. I forgot this even happened, but apparently the flat mana cost stat was broken after mana cost modifiers were redesigned to allow them to apply to rage and life costs in ultimatum. So it wasn't even balance reasons that killed the flat mana, though balance reasons did kill the huge %increased cost multiplier it had before that. IIRC though, it wasn't Stormbind at all that caused GGG to nerf those items, mana stacking/archmage was the big new thing in the meta at the time, those items died because Archmage itself was considered too strong. If anything, most people hated Stormbind because "it was clunky".

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GGG however is imo fully aware that Sanctuary of Thought is precisely a golden ascendancy for this skill and will keep its downside

I don't really agree that the passive was designed to be a downside, it's a huge bonus for any other kind of mana stacking character, it just so happens to make Stormbind kind of unplayable. Any other AOE-based mana stacking build loves that passive, why would it make Stormbind too strong?

The reason why I feel like this would make it considerably more interesting is because it also just makes more sense for the skill. I am trying to charge this rune as quickly as possible; it's not about mana spent, it's about the amount of lightning I can pump into it. Being more efficient, having lower mana costs, should let me pump more power into it, not make that power transfer slower. It's Stormbind, not Manabind

i mention AOE because it is a real, no strings attached +100% more damage per each square that hits the target. in standard I literally one-tap all non-uber bosses with ~20 overlaps (or rather used to, the passive tree has been reset)

I think I will give it a go - the real stat that is of interest is 'mana spent per second' - and it is a combination of cost (fixed) and cast speed (go wild).

the Indigon - i hate that item with passion. it pretty much dumbified entire mana-centered archetype and holds it hostage. at this moment every change to mana has to take into account this item. the mental gymnastic managing mana costs and levels and such - it is tiring unfun gruel. but the damage output is just absurd

if there are items that are detriminal to entire game for me it is Indigon, Mageblood and Ralakesh boots. these three, for different reasons, are just DUMB cheat items


aaaanyway, back to Stormbind - i sure would welcome any changes, that is a fun skill to play
sadly, its pretty much outdated because it pretty much cannot handle current 'mob soup' content when you are swarmed from all directions by mobs that respawn. to handle that you need a fast hitting skill, Stormbind, even the Standard version, isnt one

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

aaaanyway, back to Stormbind - i sure would welcome any changes, that is a fun skill to play
sadly, its pretty much outdated because it pretty much cannot handle current 'mob soup' content when you are swarmed from all directions by mobs that respawn. to handle that you need a fast hitting skill, Stormbind, even the Standard version, isnt one

I came to the same conclusion, my solution for the issue was ignite elementalist. The ignite prolifs help cut through "The mob soup".

I really should revisit that build, maybe there was something I missed.

Probably better as a PoE2 skill, it fits a hell of a lot better there

Never played stormbind, but I would rather need a unique from uber elder than needing to farm t17s and uber shaper for echoes of creation. That being moved to uber shaper was toxic to me.

Uber elder is a fairly beginning/mid level endgame boss that can be farmed without doing anything crazy. On top of that you get to farm watchers eyes 2 and 3 mod from doing elder/uelder as well.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

Never played stormbind, but I would rather need a unique from uber elder than needing to farm t17s and uber shaper for echoes of creation. That being moved to uber shaper was toxic to me.

Uber elder is a fairly beginning/mid level endgame boss that can be farmed without doing anything crazy. On top of that you get to farm watchers eyes 2 and 3 mod from doing elder/uelder as well.

True, but it's not like slams require Echoes of Creation to function, right? Or are they pretty shit without it? I didn't get very far into the last slam character I tried.

IMO, it would be like locking additional exerts, or warcry buff effect behind a single Unique.

slams indeed work without Echoes. In fact i think that price one pays for that extra damage from Echoes is very steep: rare helmet with double 'reduced mana reservation' rolls in practice means one extra aura. it ofc wont beat the damage from Echoes, it is way higher, utility one can get from it is huge

well rolled rare in my opinion is very comparable IN GENERAL to Echoes. one provides more utility and lessens pressure on gear elsewhere while Echoes provide unmatched damage but requires building around (to an extent)


Indigon on the other hand - you either build around it entirely (playstyle AND gear) or not. you cannot just replace rare with it. it requires complete character change AND playstyle change due to burst nature of Indigon playstyle not meshing well with constant expenditure of channelling skill



I strongly believe (testing it right now) that Stormbind is fully playable without Indigon. all you need is to prioritize cast speed > aoe > damage. in this order (my lvl 41 char has .1 cast time on rune blast already)

i think later today i will get to lvl68 and equip my first go-to items:
(craft cast speed on the staff ofc, couldnd find something ready to buy)

PoB says i will get to 5.4m radius (squares are 1.6) meaning guaranteed 9+ overlaps for a freight train of damage

the question of playstyle and general fit for current game remains. while I believe it will be very comfortable bosser, the trash clearing potential im not certain. the hinder is great defensive mechanic but is it that great to carry me trought Simulacrum? i have my doubts

The difference is, the ceiling of a slammer causes you to be incentivized to make a stronger build to farm t17s and uber shaper, just to make a more sub par slammer build than the build you used to farm the helmet in the first place. Assuming you're playing ssf.

Indigon is a lot more powerful item in general and belongs on the uber boss, not echoes. Echoes is one of those items that gives you a trade off thats powerful. Indigon is like one of those replica alberons items to a lot of builds that make them do zillions of dps.

a status update: lvl 62 FLYING trough the content so far. it is honestly in the top 10 of my leveling experiences this league so far


and another one: 3.26 will bring Focused Channelling support that rewards you for continuous channelling with extra damage AND mana cost. sounds familiar? :)

im pretty sure it is plenty enough to turn PROPERLY build Stormbind into general viability