Change the Mirror of Kalandra

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605

I dont disagree with your points but you need to consider that "perfect rare items" will not exist anymore, as I stated in the initial post perfect items are only possible thanks to the multiple mirror fees.
No one will spend 100mirrors and days of crafting to craft an item because there will be no one that can afford it.
So your are right in saying that high end items price will rise but those items will be far from being a perfect item. And there will be more of them because more people will be able to craft them.

Look I might be wrong but to shake a bit the situation I think this change is still for the better.

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Beavith#5056 wrote:

I truly don't understand the perspective of removing mirrors, or changing their function to make them one-time use.

All these threads right now share one thing. They're made by players who craft very little if at all and have yet to obtain the knowledge surrounding all of these materials and the process. They have a very distant, outside look on everything.

It's very similar to the scarab drama at the start of settlers where mostly new and bad players were fully convinced that scarabs are only being used in T17s and using them in T16 would always end in a loss.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

This change does not make BIS rares more accessible to anyone. Not high end players, not low end players, not SSF players, nobody, because it does nothing to increase the odds of making those items in the first place. ALL it does is create a need to continue making those BIS items, over and over and over again, through the course of a league.

100% accurate. And that is why the change SHOULD be made. Because that is how BiS rares SHOULD work. That is how crafting SHOULD work. That is how the market SHOULD be affected by crafting a perfect item.

Sticker price be damned, mirror-tier items should BE godly expensive and rare. They are BiS for a reason, and no further upgrades can be made beyond that point. And crafters shouldn't get to coast on ONE item forever.



To those saying no one is going to craft those items anymore.....OF COURSE THEY ARE! There is a whole class of player where their sole goal in PoE is crafting. THAT is why they come back league after league, year after year. Not the profit....but the PROJECT. Watch some youtube crafting videos and listen to what those folks say while crafting, the concern is NOT how much can you make off the item. At least not for most of them.

As for the crafting COST....it does NOT cost mirrors worth of currency to craft a mirror-tier item. That is a line spoken by someone who has never crafted an item of value in Path of Exile. It costs a LOT of currency, but the vast majority of mirror items cost LESS than a mirror to make. The people who charge 100+ divine mirror fees are taking advantage of being the king in a niche market, it is not reflective of the actual cost of the item craft. To say that they won't craft perfect items because the COST of the craft is too high is laughable. That is literally their ONLY use for their currency and playtime. They don't buy other people's items like others do...they are crafting and USING the currency. Nothing will change in that regard, only the price they sell the mirror for.

It also helps that with this change, the crafter still benefits TWICE, not just once, on the mirrored item. They sell the mirror craft, and then sell the original mirrored item. Plenty of profit to be made, while also maintaining "affordable" prices.

Agreed BIS rares should never ever be copy pasta items. One copy is more than enough. To those that say noone will craft them anymore: People are doing mirror worthy crafts in SSF already. So yeah.. that theory is out the window :P

so rather than many people able to copy the best items made in any league you rather have one dude that for some reason got his hands on 50 mirrors it would be in fee be the only person who can copy them?

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pTk91#4562 wrote:

so rather than many people able to copy the best items made in any league you rather have one dude that for some reason got his hands on 50 mirrors it would be in fee be the only person who can copy them?

Correct. And then what happens when that lucky first player is "done" with the item and can't mirror it? It gets sold again. And again. And again. Same thing, without the trust risk and completely endless bankroll for the crafter.

See it from the other side too: where's the incentive for more physical weapons on the market.....if the perfect singular item is already done? Crafting STOPS when that happens because there would be no possible competition. Your comment is only on the buyer side but there are problems on the supply side as well thanks to endless copying.

To be fair, the cost of mirroring a perfect phys weapon, at least if you're a slammer is like putting lipstick on a pig. a 900 pdps weapon vs a perfect one isn't really going to change your life.

I hope they never do that.

- lowers incentive to craft perfect items (most mirror tier items do not allow for profit anyways, only cost recoup)
- increases the price of those items, which is already really high (but totally fair), for everyone. Mirroring something is like one of the last achievement you can have in this game and already only a tiny fraction of the playerbase can do it
- you will NOT use a lot more of Vivid Vultures / Hineckora's Lock / Craicic Chimeral / (...) if they are less expensive. Their uses cases are already niche and they're made to be used only on the best items, you already have plenty of alternatives for mid to endgame crafting without those (eldritch crafting, veiled orb are already not used by many but have a wider use case than vultures and Cie)

What I think is true is the incentive to craft a perfect item shouldn't be real money. Some high end crafters do their crafts so that they can in the end RMT the fee, which create a higher incentive to monopolize the mirror market, which increases the price on those high-end currencies that you describe. That's pretty bad imo, but changing the Mirror of Kalandra isn't the way to solve this monopoly (it would solve it, but create worse problems).

I can find a lot more reasons, I really hope they don't do what you guys ask

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Haavod#1418 wrote:

(most mirror tier items do not allow for profit anyways, only cost recoup)

Uh.....not true at all? The whole point of the mirror market is endless profit. This line smacks of someone weighing in on a conversation they don't really have any experience with or even know the basics of.

Best of the best items being more expensive is not a negative. Having less of the best of the best items is also not totally a negative. Craft them yourself at a fraction of the cost if that's what you are concerned about.

Because that's really what 99% of mirror-tier items cost: a fraction of the sale cost. They can recoup losses in less than a single handful of copies.

I've said this a million times but apparently somehow it still needs to be said (even though imo it should be really obvious). Changes like this will never impact the richest players in POE - they will only impact and annoy players in the top-lower tiers (aka the ones who buy the mirrored items).

And the funny thing is, when that happens, it will only stream down further - essentially meaning, the poor player like you who's never seen or been able to afford a mirror, will buy your stuff for a higher price than previous.

Like a real economy, POE economy has layers. The faster and cheaper I buy my upgrades, the faster and cheaper I'll sell my gear to someone in the layer below me. Make things less accessible for one layer - you make things on average less accessible for all.

The only people who want mirrors to be changed are people who have never seen a mirror - and funnily enough, the mirror hardly has any crafting value to you as a player (maybe only if you dual wield a specific build or smth) so why would you even want to use it? The purpose of a mirror is to be able to copy other, more powerful items that better players have crafted.

You know what happens when you limit that? It will cost others (not the top percenters) a lot more to get their endgame items, because mirror-tier items will obviously be much rarer. This will incentivize the 2nd or 3rd layer of players (those who buy the mirrored items) to sell things slower and more expensive to you, the poor player who's never seen a mirror and is just pissed that others have.

You all need to stop with this misguided attitude towards "rich" players and understand that they will always stay at the top because, in most cases, they are just better at the game (there are some exceptions of course). They know how to exploit every game mechanic and market changes to make profit, and you don't. Making a change like this will only serve to make everyone else, including you, poorer.

Honestly there is no real logic behind your post other than "if I don't get it nobody should" which is a horrible, horrible logic to go by. If it were another currency like say, divines or exalts or even locks which you can argue they have actual application to crafting maybe I'd agree, yeah. But mirrors serve as a trade tool and nothing more - they are next to useless for most SSF scenarios.