Remove Maven as a mandatory boss fight

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

oh cmon

you are arguing in bad faith


Maven's memory game is poo mechanic. that is a damn fact. there is nothing even remotely comparable in the entire game. it is annoying 'skill check' in a game where skill is expected and expressed elsewhere. it is as if chess tournaments had arm wrestling competition after 30 moves

you can get used to it - esp now with no xp penalty - but i cannot imagine anyone having actual fun doing that damn 'skilful dance'


note: this new poe2 boss that asks you to.. COLLECT ROSES!! (i literally burst with laughter seeing that) is close second. it at least uses mechanics from other part of the game. but the entire idea (and visuals) is so odd and cross to everything else...

replacing maven with one of T17 bosses or Feared or whatever. it might be hard (maven is not hard, she doesnt even require that much dps if you know how to manage the degen balls) but at least make it a fight

it is shocking comparison: 3rd and 4th voidstone. on one hand there is imo THE BEST fight in the entire game: Uber Elder. mechanical, dangerous, unforgiving but fair, challenging and very clean, no bs fight. on the other we have a maven's memory game that pretends to fit into ARPG

I'm sorry Sid, but you're definitely the one arguing in bad faith here.

For one thing, you say something which is by definition an opinion and follow it up immediately with "that is a damn fact." No, it isn't, it's purely subjective and so are all of your justifications for said opinion.

Which does not mean your opinion is invalid! But a valid opinion is not the same thing as a fact. Here's the difference: "Sid doesn't like the memory game." That's a fact. "Sid thinks the memory game is out of place in PoE1." That's also a fact. "The memory game is out of place in PoE1," though is an opinion. There is nothing objective about that to prove or disprove, and if something cannot be verified or falsified it is not a fact.

Secondly, the statement "I cannot imagine anyone having actual fun" is literally an argument from incredulity. It's one of the most obviously fallacious arguments a person can make.

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

oh cmon

you are arguing in bad faith


Maven's memory game is poo mechanic. that is a damn fact. there is nothing even remotely comparable in the entire game. it is annoying 'skill check' in a game where skill is expected and expressed elsewhere. it is as if chess tournaments had arm wrestling competition after 30 moves

lol really?

Mechanics that don't exist elsewhere:
Labyrinth Traps: pretty much exclusive to lab
Darkness: exclusive to delve
T17 mods: only found in t17s
Sirus clouds: only found in Sirus
Nearly EVERY boss specific mechanics
etc.

EVERY boss has a mechanic that is unique to IT, requires skill or understanding to overcome, and is found essentially nowhere else. What an awful argument. And MOST require movement in some way as the entirety of the "skill check". Maven memory is just a natural extension of that. Dodging the fireballs is the same. The slow moving pile of slime is the same. King in the Mists is the same. Even just dodging the die beam of Sirus is essentially the SAME skill being tested.

YOU PERSONALLY don't like the maven memory game. That by no means translates to "it doesn't belong because its unique". I personally hate everything that Delve is, and you won't catch me dead EVER playing it. But if I even TRIED to argue that it "doesn't belong in PoE", god help me....

Talk about bad faith.


And no....its not like if Chess had an arm wrestling tournament. Like I said, movement-based skill checks are EVERYWHERE in PoE. And puzzles like Maven memory are staples of RPGs as far back as the 90s. And even trap-based mechanics that punish incorrect movement (which the memory game IS) have existed in PoE since the labyrinth was released. It's not some completely random piece of crap taken out of thin air from a completely different genre (cough cough, ToTA, Sanctum, cough)