Tier 17s - An insidious problem?

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MagosX#1099 wrote:

They are supposed to be challenging.
What's the point if you get maximum loot with zero friction?

I'd say that's the main problem. You are talking about challenging in the first sentence and then about friction in the second.

I do not think that T17 are challenging, any half decent build can do them. But the amount of friction you have to through to roll them properly for good rewards and no build killing mods is just lame.

I'd be fine with it if i could just pick the mods i want klick one button and then pay the 30-40c it would likely cost to roll them normally and be done with it. But the whole process of chaos -> check mods -> chaos -> check mods -> repeat ad absurdum drains any kind of motivation one might have for it.

Half the t17 aren't even about difficulty either, just about being a nuissance like the can't do damage for 3 seconds or the reduced action speed per skill use. They don't make the map difficult, just annoying. Unless ofc you are Jugg/Trickster in the latter case, then you get to ignore the mod entirely.

The whole thing is just horrible design in my opinion. Nothing fun about it even if you can do them while sleeping.

i think the creation of t17 , was a design decision, to slow down the gameplay.

They want a Maptier, where u cant Zoom trough, and had to Think and be carefull.

But how its made.... We dont need to discuss this.

Its so bad in design. U cant see anything. If u play slow, u are dead. Speed is everything - Dmg is everything.

I think also the difference between t16 and t17 in reward is to Big.

Lets only think about Gold income alone

t16 map is like 10 000 Gold at its best ( Alch and go )
t17 is like 30 000 Gold

I think t17 will kill the Game in the longterm. There are to much mods, that are not worth the Try.

Like exarch Runes ore this elder Circle - How is it fun to wait for circel to explode or run past them , but u have to wait to loot the items.

Shaper beams, Maven or Synth Bosses are somwewhat okay. U can handle it with tanky enough Builds.

Or what about these Mods like, 5% of Health a.s.o is gone per hit u take. WTF?

120% More life with Atlasstree Mods.

And what about Energyshield - yeah 8 Min fight with the Boss, only to constantly take of his ES.

When ur Build is Mirror Tier - Than everything is no problem.
But we have to talk about Builds, that are 4 Watchstones and in Progress. They have to suffer from the fact, that if u cant run t17 , u are screwed.

Yeah u can farm Other content , to sell the imtes a.s.o
but on Console its a different story - There u need raw Currency or Gold to SSF ur Gear most of the time. There is no Cross market.
U need Shipments , Recombination is much to Expansive in Dust and Gold. And if u cant handle t17 ur Progress rely on Lucky Essence or something else.

This Game, from a console standpoints, becomes more and more a Handy Game - No progress, unless u are 24h online, role the market and play a Market simlulator.

The nerfs to Loot in the game, after creating t17 , done nothing good overhoul

lets see, how it will be in the Future.

But i dont think that the Casual players from poe2, which are looking into poe1 , will stay for long

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nathandark84#9725 wrote:

Lets only think about Gold income alone

t16 map is like 10 000 Gold at its best ( Alch and go )
t17 is like 30 000 Gold

Comparing their rewards on a per map basis is misleading. You can easily run two or three t16 maps in the time it takes to run a t17. The size and stupid layouts of T17 maps alone mean they take much longer to clear. If you compare them on a per hour basis the difference isn't that big.

I hate them for multiple reasons (t17, 16.5), like uberfragments gated behind them, but worst is that they have multiplicative rewards which scales with your tree, making you feel like a clown when running normal maps.
I don't understand why they do this tbh, you just can not ignore them if you don’t like them (820% currency multiplier was highest i got, the amount of „tinks“, so the difference to a normal map was ridiculous)

actually big map size is a boon for t17's. You're getting more bang for your buck (scarabs).

T17s are a mistake, created to appeal to ultra wealthy players bored of trivializing the game.

They could've just nerfed the extremely high end of the game and force those players to play at everyone else's level, but instead GGG resorted to tacking on more difficult content that can only be reliably farmed by the already wealthy.

This is a bad design decision that is only going to have long-term consequences later down the road. How much longer until T17s and uber bosses are considered too easy and the developers are internally discussing yet another map tier and ultra pinnacle boss?

GGG needs to put their foot down, draw a line in the sand, and nerf builds that are trivializing this content.

Lol at neading to be wealthy to run t17s yeah you need to have a decently build char which only makes sense being the highest tier you can run.
a nice t16 with scarabs should work fine if not ready yet.....
droprate from t17 maps seems increased aswell..

i used t17s as a baseline to how my char was doing how far could i get could i beat the boss etc. after some upgrades retry and eventually they become easyer

Some strats that used to be high profit like exile farming required quite a good build at least they were high profit in 3.25.
Its fine that more challenging maps yields higher rewards.