The Debate Over Experience Point Loss

In response to those who were attacking me, I also ended up using very aggressive language in this post.

I felt it wasn’t a comfortable space for sharing thoughts, and I didn’t expect any further replies.

That’s why I wrote a new post hoping to hear others’ perspectives—but I didn’t realize the two posts would be merged, causing confusion and making it look like a duplicate issue.

I sincerely apologize. If anyone would like to share their thoughts moving forward, perhaps we can continue the discussion in the post titled "Let’s have a respectful discussion about the experience penalty upon death."?

Once again, I sincerely apologize for unintentionally creating duplicate posts.

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It's quite fascinating that right after my post, a new one appeared discussing the loss of experience points upon death, sparking a heated debate.

Because I didn’t propose removing the death penalty altogether—I merely suggested slightly reducing the amount of experience lost on death—and yet I was harshly criticized as if I were attacking the game itself, lol.

Path of Exile is a highly enjoyable and well-crafted game. It's the pinnacle of its genre and has already surpassed Diablo, the genre’s original pioneer.

Still, everyone acknowledges that this game has a high entry barrier. Why hasn't such a well-made game achieved market dominance? Is it simply because it's difficult or complex? I don't think so.

Take Elden Ring, for example. It's a difficult game, yet its expansion sold over 10 million copies—clearly a mainstream success.

People play games even if they're difficult and complex, as long as they’re fun. That's the truth.

The same applies to Path of Exile. People play it because it’s fun despite its difficulty and complexity. So why does this game have such a steep entry barrier?

I believe the game has elements that make players uncomfortable—such as the tedious process of finding Legion Jewel numbers or the reliance on external websites due to limited in-game information.

But I’m not trying to talk about all of those. I want to focus on just one issue: experience points.

To be clear, the intention behind my suggestion is simple: I hope more people can enjoy this game, and I want to lower the entry barrier just a bit.

I'm not saying the game should be easier or that anyone should be able to reach endgame mindlessly. That’s already what Diablo offers—ease and accessibility. POE is the opposite. It’s deep and complex, with intricately linked content.

That’s precisely why POE is fun. Its difficulty and complexity create diversity and allow players to build countless unique characters tailored to their playstyle.

So this game should remain challenging and complex. That’s part of its identity, and I don’t intend to change that.

Apologies if the post feels long-winded. It’s frustrating when people assume you’re whining about a game you don’t even understand, lol.

Now then—why would reducing experience loss on death help more people play the game?

Some argue that removing penalties makes it too easy to hit max level, which shortens the time people spend in-game and makes the game feel boring too quickly.

I get that. But that logic applies to players already familiar with POE—people who’d still play even if every mode except Ruthless disappeared. They’re devoted fans who always return for the next league.

For them, a minor reduction in death penalty wouldn’t cause boredom or make them quit—just finish the league a little earlier.

That’s where experience adjustment helps. Even if veterans wrap up early, it gives room for newer players to take their place and increases the overall player base.

Think about players still learning the game—those who complete just one build during the league. If they feel less stress from dying, maybe they’d try a second build mid-league. That means more time enjoying the game, and they might stick around long enough to eventually master multiple builds and even tackle Ruthless.

Discussions about removing death penalty entirely have been around for a while. That tells us even long-time players feel stress from it. So newcomers must feel it even more.

Still, I’m not advocating for removing the penalty outright. That would make the game dull.

What I'm proposing is a simple adjustment—enough to make dying less punishing while still encouraging players to recover lost XP.

I think 5% is the maximum acceptable loss. Any less and it risks losing the purpose of a penalty. Even 6% could work.

The point is to reduce stress while maintaining challenge. I don’t believe slightly lowering XP loss damages the game's identity or makes it feel boring.

Plus, this adjustment helps newer players acclimate with less pressure, possibly growing the player base.

Yes, games should retain players over time—and making things too easy is risky. I’m not denying that.

But I don’t think this small change causes that kind of exodus. Even if players finish a league a week early, they’ll return for the next one. POE is just that fun.

That’s the core idea. Wrapping up a league early isn’t quitting—it’s a temporary break. Reduce stress just a bit, and more players will settle into the game.

Long-term retention matters, but so does ensuring people feel welcome to return anytime.

If someone sees a new league and thinks, “Ugh, I have to start a new character from scratch?” and decides not to come back, wouldn’t reducing that stress help re-engage them?

And those skilled enough to finish early could shift to Ruthless, Hardcore, or SSF instead.

I know we all love this game and have constructive ideas for its improvement. I’m one of those people too—I just want more players to enjoy POE.

So I’m proposing a refinement, not a rework. The game’s complexity is its strength, and I have no intention of altering that.

I only want to lower the entry barrier slightly so more people can experience the fun.

Times have changed. There's so much to do, watch, and play these days. It’s a world with limited time.

Some believe retaining users means locking them in longer. But I think it’s better to make returning easy. POE has the quality to bring players back—even if they finish early.

That’s the idea. Lowering stress slightly could reduce psychological barriers and encourage returning players.

Some may dismiss this, saying, “Would that small change really help?” But considering how long players have suggested removing XP loss altogether, it’s clear there’s valid stress involved—especially for those less familiar with the game.

Sorry the post got so long. I don’t know how many will read it to the end—but to those who do, thank you.

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萬雨節#2979 wrote:

So why does this game have such a steep entry barrier?
I believe the game has elements that make players uncomfortable—such as ... experience points. I want to lower the entry barrier just a bit.

When i first start playing PoE few years ago, i reach 95 lvl, without any guides, i.e. earn 118 skillpoints out of 123. Is it so frustrating for newcomers to not get those few points? Is it really make entry barrier lower? Especially you don't lose any exp in first five acts and losing exp before 90 lvl is barely noticeable.

"

萬雨節#2979 wrote:

Think about players still learning the game... If they feel less stress from dying. That’s the core idea. Reduce stress just a bit, and more players will settle into the game.

I remember my first experience. I have stress for dying in Maven / UberElder fights, because i want my voidstones. But the frags needed to open portal to those bosses was very expensive for me. My build was bad and i have only 6 tries over few days. If only i have more tries... There is no memories about stess because of dying in map.

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萬雨節#2979 wrote:

What I'm proposing is a simple adjustment—enough to make dying less punishing while still encouraging players to recover lost XP. I think 5% is the maximum acceptable loss.

You already have that. Omen reduces it to 2.5%, even better than you want.

"

萬雨節#2979 wrote:

Discussions about removing death penalty entirely have been around for a while. That tells us even long-time players feel stress from it. So newcomers must feel it even more.

This tells at least me, that there are people, who want to complete challenge, but they can't. And instead of finding a solution that exists, they come to forum and start crying.

Congratulations on reaching level 95 without a guide on your first try! Do you have any other experiences in life that you're proud of?

Why do people like you always act as if being good at this game is the pinnacle of life achievement, dismissing others' opinions unconditionally?

Yes, you're great at this game—very impressive. But even you, the almighty one, have said:

"You are comparing 'Unable to get one skillpoint out of 123, due to own laziness / lack of skill' with 'Losing all your one month of play progress'. Do you understand that entirely different things?"

Oh, so you've said that before? That sounds like Hardcore mode. Whether it’s one or two months, it’s natural that death means game over. Didn’t you know how to avoid it? Then instead of whining, maybe try learning a bit more about the game.

Why do you all ignore logic and keep telling people not to complain here? Does this game have to belong only to the elite players like you?

Path of Exile is fun. But because of people like you, there are still many aspects stuck in the 20th century. While the whole world uses smartphones, this game still relies on messenger pigeons. When someone says it’s time to stop sending pigeons and use phones, you tell them to go study pigeon breeding and stop whining.

Why are you trying to trap this amazing game in an outdated era? Times have changed! We already said it’s okay for the game to be hard and complex because it’s fun. But if it creates unnecessary stress that makes people not want to play, and if suggestions to improve such discomforts are treated as mere whining, why does this forum even exist?

"Omen reduces it to 2.5%" I know! Who wouldn’t know that? But it still costs at least 1 Divine. Maybe that’s pocket change for you great folks, but—

"I remember my first experience. I have stress for dying in Maven / UberElder fights, because i want my voidstones. But the frags needed to open portal to those bosses was very expensive for me. My build was bad and i have only 6 tries over few days. If only i have more tries..."

So you, too, had a rough time paying for boss attempts. Right? And your solution was to endure and keep playing?

Times have changed, friend. These days, when people hit such walls, they often quit the game. Why? Because there are countless other games and forms of entertainment out there.

Again, even those who dislike losing experience on death still want to play this game. Do you really want them to give up and never return due to stress?

We’re not asking to remove death penalties entirely—just reduce them a bit so they don’t ruin the experience. If even that suggestion is treated as whining, what are we supposed to do?

**"Please, can we have following inventory buttons (like in Terraria 'quick stack to nearby chests')? 'Make Cell Favourite/Unfavourite' 'Dump All' - dumps all items from inventory to stash, which lies not on Favourite cells. Works in hideout without the need to actually open stash. Have a hotkey to bind.

Also add 'Quick stack' affinity. If item have no other applicable affinity, it goes to this tab/tabs."**

You’ve made suggestions like this, haven’t you? Why—was it inconvenient for you? What I’m saying isn’t any different. The game can be hard and complex—because that’s fun. But inconvenience isn’t fun! Just like the improvements you’re asking for.

And if your opinions are valid but others’ are just whining, then maybe just don’t reply—let those interested in the topic have an actual discussion!

It should be incremental after about lv95 imo, especially the jump in exp needed from 99 to 100 is intense which isnt bad but the 10% is a moodkiller. ive not had a char go past 99 because it doesnt seem worth the hassle...i need to buy about 50 divs worth of breaches because maps have somuch randomness you might get 1 shot.and a bunch of omens at 1div a piece to minimize the damage.

also i feel the leveling is not the thing that gives you that dopamine rush like in other games. you gain 1 atlaspoint so whats the point in a sort of gatekeeping lv100 behind certain builds or tedious strats

every time i made a nice bit of exp i cant play how i want out of fear off losing the progression

get better and buy omens, if you're dying so much that 1 div per death for 2.5 xp loss is too expensive, then 5% xp loss won't help you level

"

xGajes#3848 wrote:

It should be incremental after about lv95 imo, especially the jump in exp needed from 99 to 100 is intense which isnt bad but the 10% is a moodkiller. ive not had a char go past 99 because it doesnt seem worth the hassle...i need to buy about 50 divs worth of breaches because maps have somuch randomness you might get 1 shot.and a bunch of omens at 1div a piece to minimize the damage.

also i feel the leveling is not the thing that gives you that dopamine rush like in other games. you gain 1 atlaspoint so whats the point in a sort of gatekeeping lv100 behind certain builds or tedious strats

every time i made a nice bit of exp i cant play how i want out of fear off losing the progression

Thanks for the great opinion. I’ve been wanting to have this kind of discussion. I think your idea is excellent—applying the 10% loss before level 95 and gradually reducing it after that. It's much better than my suggestion of a flat 5% cut. It’s realistic without drastically changing the system.

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Rextec#4521 wrote:

get better and buy omens, if you're dying so much that 1 div per death for 2.5 xp loss is too expensive, then 5% xp loss won't help you level

Hey buddy, you understood what I was saying, right? If, like you said, a 5% loss doesn't help with leveling, then 10% is even tougher. But with 5%, players might not feel like quitting and instead find motivation to try again.

This isn’t about a black-and-white choice between 10% or 0%! I’m saying we should find a realistic solution somewhere between people like you who believe there's no need to change the 10%, and those who advocate for 0%. Why are people so defensive about keeping the 10%—do they really think changing it would break the game? Is POE really that fragile?

My core idea is to preserve POE’s identity while improving the inconvenient parts. It can stay hard and complex—that’s what makes POE great. But should only a select few get to enjoy this amazing game?

Of course, there are people who whine just because they want easy rewards. That’s why it’s not about dropping the penalty to 0% and letting everyone win without effort. It's about finding a reasonable compromise somewhere in between.

Let’s just trim the parts that are unnecessarily frustrating, friend. That’s the point—we’re not here to crown the whiners

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Rextec#4521 wrote:

get better and buy omens, if you're dying so much that 1 div per death for 2.5 xp loss is too expensive, then 5% xp loss won't help you level

1 div?

You haven't check amel omen prices lately, have you?

They were at 369c when I checked yesterday.

That'd almost 2d to have an item that was created solely because GGG knows XP loss is a shit mechanic but are too stubborn to just flat out remove it.

Losing 10% of XP or 2.5% and nearly 2d because you did something stupid is one thing.

Losing 10% xp or 2.5% XP and nearly 2 div because you've been literally speed farming content for XP and loot only to get randomly 1-shot by a randomly generated monster that just randomly has the proper assortment of random mods to randomly 1-shot you and potentially wipe out HOURS of progress/work simply sucks.

XP loss on death is an archaic out-dated hold over from a bygone era that should be entirely scrapped.

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yummysushipjs#7638 wrote:

1 div?

You haven't check amel omen prices lately, have you?

They were at 369c when I checked yesterday.

Take it easy, buddy. I just checked and the lowest price in Omen is 1 Div. But if you search in Chaos Orbs, there are sellers listing it for 400 Chaos. Prices can vary depending on how you search and what time you search.

I understand your fatigue. I wrote my comment for people like you who get stressed out by losing experience points.

But if you speak while you're really angry, it undermines your argument. Then those ‘authorities’ who write dissertations on this game might swoop in and tell you to stop whining and go find the ways not to die like everyone else.

I understand you're furious enough to want XP loss removed entirely. Outdated mechanic? You're right. But even before our suggestions can reach GGG, the game’s developers, we can't seem to get past the wall of elitist users who sit on these forums all day. They’re so wrapped up in their own superiority that they’d rather trap this amazing game in the mindset of the 20th century.

So what we need is balance. Let’s find a reasonable middle ground that reduces our stress while still allowing us to enjoy the game. Whether you’re the one frustrated with XP loss or the elitist who looks down on others from their high horse—we all love this game and just want to have fun with it.

If we can work together to convince the devs, I think we can make some real progress. Hope the rest of your day brings some good vibes, my friend.

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yummysushipjs#7638 wrote:

1 div? You haven't check amel omen prices lately, have you? They were at 369c when I checked yesterday.

Before 99 lvl, omens not needed. At 99 lvl, if you have such aim, you should be rich enough to buy 10 of them, even by current prices it's 20 div.

"

萬雨節#2979 wrote:

Congratulations on reaching level 95 without a guide on your first try! Do you have any other experiences in life that you're proud of?

I refer to myself as an ordinary player and mean that even complete newbies like me can achieve 95 lvl without any stress, so your worries about them are pointless.

Overall i don't mind to change of exp penalty on 99->100 lvl. Though the solution is already exists (omens). What i don't want is a complete removal of exp penalty.