Expirience loss is ridiculous on high levels
" It doesn't add tension. It adds frustration and a lack of incentive to push into higher end content. It doesn't add a sense of accomplishment, it adds in a sense of "I'm just going to pay some strangers X divs so I can play candy crush on my phone while they farm my XP for me". It rewards nothing except playing boring super safe content. No "economic mastery" is going to protect you from literally steamrolling content for hours then just getting 1-shot out of nowhere by something you couldn't see coming and therefore could "good play" your way out of. If by "in a good place" you mean stuck in the 1990's because it's easier to punish people for mechanics out of their control than to create actually challenging content that rewards "good play" then yeah, I guess it is. Fortunately you don't need a helmet to clear any of the content in the game. Perhaps instead of XP loss they should punish you by bricking one of your equip slots so that you get no bonus from having an item in that slot. And yeah, if you're having trouble then a good idea is to pay roughly 2d to save 75% of the loss on death ONCE per map. You could also pay others to do the leveling for you. I know that when I play Call of Duty and get frustrated with dying I wish I could pay people COD bucks to play the game for me so I can unlock cools guns and attachments. /s " Yeah guys, is it really that hard to play a build you don't want to play and spend dozens of divines to reduce, not remove, this archaic penalty? " Okay then, let's keep a punishment but make it different. Make it so that when you die a random equipped gem loses 1 level. Next time you die same thing but if it hits the same random gem then that gem loses 5 levels. If the same gem gets randomly chosen 3 times it's poofed. If 3 gems in the same piece of gear get hit then that piece of gear loses one mod line. Or how about if you die 5 times in 1 level a gear slot is locked and can't be used until you reach the next level? |
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" It's always nice to get a "ding" - but when you have to work a bit for it - which is what happens after level 95 - it becomes more meaningful. A reward for careful play, good planning and/or making good use of the economy. |
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" Finally someone who gets it. This outdated exp penalty only makes people turn to legion 5-way carries(or breachstone exp leech groups/juiced t16 deli map exp leech groups which have been around for forever btw in global 820), changing their game to windowed mode 800x600 and watching something else on their 2nd mointor/on the same screen while they afk and have someone else get the exp for them. And I'll keep spending my divines on it because its the least frustrating way of getting what I want, we had the 30% per shrine effect on you scarab for like 1 league and it was perfectly balanced and a fun way for casuals to hit 100 and then they insta-deleted it and put in some garbo new scarab that nobody uses instead. Its just sad. We already had the "oh no I cannot do any bosses because im at 90% exp" problem before, now its solved thanks to the changes where you don't lose exp anymore in pinnacles. Just discard this outdated horrible mechanic already. Everyone will forget exp loss ever existed like a week later 100%. I don't know how much more time its gonna take for this game to move on and actually adopt some more modern standards. We still have cumbersome in-game trading which is also ancient and archaic. Exp loss is a cheap mechanic to inflate playtime, it never teaches you anything, it never gives you any sense of accomplishment that's all an illusion and a lie. |
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" I think this analogy is flawed and misrepresents what people like me, who are against current punishment on exp think. Let's start by the fact that there is no "necessary" content you should clear. It's a game and you can quit on act 2 like i did in 2020. Continue with your analogy. People who are complaining aren't ones who DO NOt WANT to get 100. they are the ones who either did it, tries to do it, or dropped attempts to do it because of current exp loss system. If we go up with the breach analogy - imagine that if you stepped on breach the wrong way or died in it you will get all breachstone shards you already farmed in your stash be deleted. Yea that "rewards" stepping on breach on the right side and careful breach farming. Is it good? It is not. and you tell that it should be that way because it rewards skill and you feel "accomplisment" which you already will feel for actually playing breach - aka farming exp " While i agree that chasing numbers and reward dophamine isn't all there is to poe i fully disagree on current punishment adding any meaning to the process of farming. In reality if you are a player like you seem from amount of supporter packs - harsh death penalty doesn't add on you because your expirience makes you not dying anyway and it's not tied to the penalty, and if a new player tries to complete the "content" of reaching 100, he gets strongly demotivated, because simple mistake will cause you a lot of time just wasted by loss. Players who are not that good already will farm exp slower due to them using less effective build and strategy, and on top of that there is another punishment. And despite all of that talk about how it feels bad i actually think certain degree of exp loss should be in game. The thing i disagree on is that you should get flat -10% for single death. The main issue that one mistake causes you to lose 5-10 correct play "achievements" of successfully farming and not dying that are not tied to your mistake at all. Imagine that if you died on a map that you got 1d on not only deleted that D from your inventory, but also deleted 10 D from your stash with hard save value at 0D, 100D, 200D and etc. This is what i feel in current system. Not in the same degree how it would feel to lose 10D on death, but the same type of feeling. That's why my main idea is to make it that only exp you can lose is exp you got on the map you died on. It will remove the frustration from losing already gotten exp and in the same way punish people who aren't on exp grind and not playing safe - because if you wil die once every map, or every two maps you will be in th same situation as in current system and if you die less and less you will actually gradually get more and more exp - more and reward |
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" It will never happen in this game. Even though they added the omen because even GGG realizes it's a horrible mechanic they'll never remove it because their hubris precludes them from doing so. Besides, POE 1 is already on its deathbed. Far too many people either don't realize this or are in denial. POE 2, like it or not, is the future and over the next couple years more and more resources will be put into POE 2. So MAYBE, at some point, POE 2 will have the XP punishment removed in an effort to encourage new players or to get casual players to come back. |
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" We disagree. If you wish to engage with optional content, it's expected you will optimize for it. It's no different than running a low DPS build and getting overwhelmed by shaper or elder ground degen. Just like any other content in PoE, if you're hitting a roadblock, you need to work around the problem. And yes, it's the job of a game developer to create problems for you to overcome. Remove enough problems and the game is reduced to a green windows status bar. I feel it's in a good place at the moment. Last edited by Sabranic_SilverDeth#2793 on Aug 11, 2025, 1:03:50 AM
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" Sure. It was never a point i was arguing about and doesn't counter anything what i said previously. I think that there is nothing wrong in using exp omens, use optized strategies and build got. I never said that was the issue. I said issue is that current system punishment is too harsh for a single mistake even including all of that, exp omens have pretty huge price for a normal player. And when i'm talking about normal player i do not mean person like you and me, who are playing games for 10+ years and 10+ leagues in your case. A lot of times i introduce my casual frinds to all kinds of games from rhytm ones to poe. What i personally found is that there are a lot of systems that provide a little of value to person who is actively playing even competitevly (if not even decrease the fun of it actively or demotivate to keep playing) but gatekeeps fun expirience from a huge portion of players. Exp loss in my opinion one of those systems Even if those mechanics were removed, players who defended them usually either forget they existed, or even opposite - agreed that they were wrong at the moment. I'm not saying that's your case but that's my expirience. And my expirience is mostly niche games like Space station 13/14. I was participating in development of build for come russian servers for those game and was really loud to debate in feedback sections and for some time was on the dev teams. Will cut the yap and go to the point why i mention this - from my expirience even bad systems with games that have passionate developers have a reason why they are there. The question usually not "why it's there" but "what are the throwbacks and are they worth it" Let's use your degen analogy because it is better in showcasing my point. When you get low damage build and get spammed by degen on shaper-elder-maven for example it's a singleton punishment mechanic. It punishes you in exact fight for a type of behaviour, and actually have exact counterplay that mitigates danger of that mechanic by stacking degen on itself. Exp loss isn't a singleton mechanic in that case. It punishes any death after a certain level, any dath, anywhere except bosses. In addition to that this mechanic strips you of "property" you already farmed without a mistake. Imagine if any death on map would delete watcher eyes from you tree, inventory and stash. Usage of it will go down a tonn and elder will be deemed way more grindy and punishing. scale maybe isn't the same, but issue is similar, game strips you from something you already got with your hard work. You can lose exp you got 50 maps ago if you die enough times, the only hard limit is level up. This level of punishment doesn't feel rewarding because people who get to 100 on day three do not feel it to that degree, and people who are dying and actively trying to fix their issus can lose up to 10+ hours of value, which won't make 99.99 percent of those people be motivated to continue, it will make them have a quit moment. It have nothing to do with being optimized for "optional content", it have to with fact that current system makes that "optional content" not fun to expirience for most players. Yeah, not everything is for everyone, but i'm not telling GGG to turn the game into level up on fart simulator either. Also you should be a little bit more self aware here, we both have shifted perspectives - it's a first league for m and 10th+ league for you. The amount of time you spent playing made you so good of a player and knowledgeable about the game, that often times you maybe not see issues most of th players have, same way i can't see some benefits of legacy systems. Just for experement, do same thing i did. get a person who have never played ARPG before, preferably not even played games a lot, and just watch what they will do in game without helping them, what will be their quit moments and what will make them jump from happiness. I thonkq this can shift your "feel it's in a good place at the moment." |
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