Defense vs Damage balance

It's feedback forum, right?

Glacial Cascade
3.0 release introduced insane buff to Glacial Cascade, it wasn't hard to predict that Sarn Arena will be tightly filled with GC miners during Harbinger league, thereby it was a great opportunity to test what the game offers as an effective (and ethical) non-legacy defense against spell damage.

So, the Defense:
8685 eHP, 75/75 block, 693 life on block, 0/46(54) dodge, 26% flask effect Avenger's Aquamarine Flask, Soul of Solaris, Soul of Yugul, Harbinger of Focus, Fortify, 75(149)% cold res.

it's 91% chance to avoid spell cold damage with 5(13, 25, 45)% reduced cold damage taken (from hits), 20% to get 50% less damage form Glacial Cascade, unaffected by extra damage form crits, chill, elemental weakness.

The Damage:
Generic Glacial Cascade miner, 58% cold res penetration, Minefield, slightly less that 90k GC tooltip damage, (0, 35, 50, 65)% Block Chance reduction.

The goal:
Being able to survive a single stack of GC mines w/o using CwDT.

The result:
65-50% BCR negates all defense investments, you simply have no chance. (36-30% chance to take cold damage, 26-37% block apparently equal to "getting oneshot each time")
35% BCR is enough for instant kill with each 2nd stack (25% chance to take cold damage)
0% BCR simply doesn't work, 693 flat hp on block can keep the build alive infinity amount of time. (8.6% chance to take cold damage)

Conclusion:
I believe there's nothing else can be done to improve the build defense.
Spoiler


The only defense mechanic the build missing is "100% cold damage taken as fire" talisman with Glitterdisc + AA, but I think it's not that important. Miner can use dual Sambar's, boot's enchant etc for 50%+ global elemetal penetration.
Whatever investments have being done the build unable to avoid oneshot from 65% BCR setup.
for reference: 65% BCR will cost you one 20/20 Gem and two 15% BCR prefixes (crafted for ~ 200 Orb of Augmentation).

Suggestion:
PvP damage reduction formula should consider number of hits the target takes per frame / certain amount of frames from attacker. Or you may just override T constant for Remote mine and Trap to 0.01

Stun

Ruthless is a fun gem for sure, too bad it makes irrelevant any intermediate state between "immune to stun" and "use nothing related to stun avoidance".

8685 eHP, 62% stun avoidance, 44-84% increased stun recovery, curse immunity.
it's 0.24-0.19sec base stun duration, 38% chance to get stunned by stunning hit.

vs.

RT Dual Strike with Stun Support, Ruthless Support, 60% stun duration belt, Stun Mastery, and that's it.

The goal:
Escape from stunlock while using no "immunity to stun" items.

The result:
it's impossible. No matter how pathetically low the attacker's damage, if it can stun — you gonna stay there forever writhing in stun recovery animation.

Suggestion:
Buff Cloth Belt implicit to at least 79.8% increased stun and block recovery.

Explosive arrow
8685 eHP, lvl 21 Arctic Armor, Glitterdisc.

vs.

One of authentic EA users from this thread

There is no noticeable difference between using AA + Glitterdisc and just standing afk.
6.4k life is too low to make use of 9.8% life regen, overlaped AoE EA damage is too high, 1v1 arenas layouts are too spaceless for being able manually dodge any of EA volleys.
Fire Aegis will change nothing.

Suggestion:
Nerf Deadly Infusion.

Summary


Why does this game aspect left rotting down there?
Can you please finally fix Zerphi's Last Breath interaction with Blood Magic?
Blight, Death Aura, Gloves Enchants etc.


Last edited by g64#3098 on Mar 29, 2018, 12:50:35 AM
Last bumped on Nov 29, 2017, 1:51:28 PM
I like how one of these isn't like the others.................

Stun, 100% avoidance and easily obtainable for anyone.

You could of put Bleed up there as well, would of been just as easily shut down.

Where you have other mechanics i.e Chaos DoT vs Hp based characters, AoE overlap and even Ignite (to a much lesser degree because there is Ashrend). You have to look at balance as if everyone can obtain it in some form regardless of the build. Not huuuur just go CI or huuuur just go ranged or huuuur just get a shield.


The others are GGG's genius way of measuring ease of use and reward. Just look at their newest support gem ideas for an example of it. They introduce gems that make targeting easier, eliminating any thought process or name locking. At the same time they apply a penalty, usually less damage...but it's never enough. They give you 3+++++++ more attacks that overlap while only lowering your damage by a small percentage, completely ignoring how they multiple. Even melee has this problem in the form of Molten Strike/Burst. Better yet you have gems like Fireball that got the Freezing Pulse treatment post "shotgun removal". They do over 1000 damage base to make up for their lack of "overlap" but hey....just look around, shits overlapping pretty well if you ask me. They half ass everything they do then maybe far into the future come back to rectify what they did...if they even revisit it at all.

They've stuck to this trend since 1.0, that's why it's continually gotten further and further from any potential. Pre 1.0 the game was fucked up but we knew it was just a beta and expected for these blatantly obvious affected areas to be fixed but I guess when your heads up your ass or the next guys ass you can't see. We got a few pictures of Chris Wilson getting his hair cut though, woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot.
GGG, the ADA of gaming....huuuur i gotz mai skilz.
IGN: MullaXul
Last edited by MullaXul#2277 on Nov 29, 2017, 7:10:36 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icYzPISeAmY&t=2s

these days were good. except EA. if there wasn't EA back then, those days wold be the best probably.

oh i see my old build now, it sucks, i could have made it much stronger with the mindset i have.
"You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength."
Good Points, but not every buffed skill ends up top cheap sarn build, GC had problems before. My tank got tested against 65% BCR GC mines in 2.6, pre-buff GC, pre-nerf-CI, I had 18k ES 78% block, 6000 ES gain per block, some other defences, and it still only took 1-2 bursts from GC to kill me. Both GC and Aegis are stupid.
IGN: Márkusz
My builds: thread/1600072
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
"
Rupenus wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icYzPISeAmY&t=2s

these days were good. except EA. if there wasn't EA back then, those days wold be the best probably.

oh i see my old build now, it sucks, i could have made it much stronger with the mindset i have.


Yea this was a nice era. Dominated by cyclone RT/discharges/tempest/ea.
During that time Ranged bow could only compet with bleed trap and casters had only like arc.

Imo only shit to nerf in this era was trap-tempest-molten shell-discharge-Ea-cyclone.

Then it went to total shit when GGG added not only good dps to all bow/ranged but also added those horrible blink/mirror arrow without nerfing anything in return for a long time .
I remember 10k life Libra tanking everything in middle of sarn while afk.Impossible nowdays, even with 20k life you would get 1 shot.


Forum pvp
Last edited by lolozori#1147 on Nov 29, 2017, 1:57:50 PM

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