Bladestorm?

Hello. Last league I did this archetype divine ire templar and it was pretty obvious how to skill.

This league I thought im gonna do blood and sand gladiator because it made a lot of sense on the first view.

But now I am so unsure about so many things. I wanted to use bladestorm and I thought I should take RT cause I skill bleed and impale but no crit.

I'm not sure if bladestorm even needs accuracy. Is it a dot that always hits\degens or do I need accuracy/RT for it? Does it scale with damage overtime?

And the other thing is. Crimson dance has - 50% less bleed damage and bladestorm has - 50% damage with ailments. Does - 100% less bleed damage mean I deal 0 bleed damage with my bleed gladiator?

I think You can't use bleed, because it will don't work with -100%. IDK! It's my theory.

I think so too but I don't wanna believe it because gladiator has bleeding and it's called blood and sand and omg what should I do now. What about that damage over time? Does that scale bladestorm? Do I need accuracy/RT?


Should i just take off crimson dance or not go for bleed at all? But that feels wrong as a gladiator...

Thanks for answer thou :D

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zat0m wrote:

Hello. Last league I did this archetype divine ire templar and it was pretty obvious how to skill.

This league I thought im gonna do blood and sand gladiator because it made a lot of sense on the first view.

But now I am so unsure about so many things. I wanted to use bladestorm and I thought I should take RT cause I skill bleed and impale but no crit.

I'm not sure if bladestorm even needs accuracy. Is it a dot that always hits\degens or do I need accuracy/RT for it? Does it scale with damage overtime?

And the other thing is. Crimson dance has - 50% less bleed damage and bladestorm has - 50% damage with ailments. Does - 100% less bleed damage mean I deal 0 bleed damage with my bleed gladiator?

Ok, the storms from Bladestorm are not DOTs. They hit (and as far as I can tell the hit rate is equal to your attack speed). You will need accuracy if you are not using Resolute Technique or some other ability/gear that makes you always hit.

As for bleeds, these are two different debuffs types. Crimson Dance is a 50% LESS and the other is 50% REDUCED. The first is a multiplicative reduction and the second is a additive (or subtractive in this case). This will calculate together to give you 75% total reduction of bleed damage assuming you have no other bleed damage penalties anywhere.

Edit: Damage calculation in PoE can be pretty complicated and nearly require a degree in Mathematics sometimes but you can check this page on the wiki to try getting into the inner workings.

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Stat

Hey thank you a lot for the clarification on accuracy and dot.


But about the bleed you say crimson dance has 50less and the other (bladestorm) has 50 reduced.

But bladestorm wording is 50% less Damage with hits and ailments


I did not throw the more bleed damage into calculation now

Edit: I'm not new to poe just new to bleed and the main reason I'm asking because I can not believe it. I really expected the blood archetype gladiator to make use of bleed with bladestorm and crimson dance

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zat0m wrote:

Hey thank you a lot for the clarification on accuracy and dot.


But about the bleed you say crimson dance has 50less and the other (bladestorm) has 50 reduced.

But bladestorm wording is 50% less Damage with hits and ailments


I did not throw the more bleed damage into calculation now

Ok, my bad with the wording, and you are correct that Bladestorm is a 50% less but this is where the calculations start getting a little irritating.

Crimson Dervish is 50% less to bleeds, while Bladestorm in a 50% less to Hits and Ailments. PoE is very specific in most of its wordings so these two don't stack up to 100% less damage. I'll try my best to explain.

Lets say you inflict a bleed that does 100 DPS.
If you have 2 sources that says Bleed does 50% less damage it calculates like this:

100 * (1 - (.5+.5)) = 0

The two damage reductions are added together because they are the same type of reduction. This is then multiplied by the base damage to get the final damage.

Now lets do this with CD and BS.

Because the two reductions specify different things they are not added together and effectively multiple each other.
Calculation looks like this:

100 * (1 - .5) * (1 - .5) = 25

thank you a lot.

i guess this clears the basic for me and now i have to think again if i even go for bleed/crimson dance or not.. damn ggg why u do dis to me

"

PiedPiper11 wrote:

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zat0m wrote:

Hey thank you a lot for the clarification on accuracy and dot.


But about the bleed you say crimson dance has 50less and the other (bladestorm) has 50 reduced.

But bladestorm wording is 50% less Damage with hits and ailments


I did not throw the more bleed damage into calculation now

Ok, my bad with the wording, and you are correct that Bladestorm is a 50% less but this is where the calculations start getting a little irritating.

Crimson Dervish is 50% less to bleeds, while Bladestorm in a 50% less to Hits and Ailments. PoE is very specific in most of its wordings so these two don't stack up to 100% less damage. I'll try my best to explain.

Lets say you inflict a bleed that does 100 DPS.
If you have 2 sources that says Bleed does 50% less damage it calculates like this:

100 * (1 - (.5+.5)) = 0

The two damage reductions are added together because they are the same type of reduction. This is then multiplied by the base damage to get the final damage.

Now lets do this with CD and BS.

Because the two reductions specify different things they are not added together and effectively multiple each other.
Calculation looks like this:

100 * (1 - .5) * (1 - .5) = 25

This is incorrect. Less is always multiplicative, even with itself, so the calculation for 2 50% less sources would be X*(1-0.5)*(1-0,5) =0,25*X

CD and BS are not reductions they are multipliers and they apply the same way - both check if the damage type is bleed and if it is, they apply the 50% penalty. They don't specify different things at all - they multiply because less always acts as a multiplier. You could take a million different sources of 50% less and you wouldn't get to 0%, because you can't multiply non-zero numbers and get zero. If it was reduced bleed damage, which is additive you could, but that doesn't exist in the game.

Also, since it wasn't made clear, bleeding is an ailment, that's why it gets affected by bladestorm's 50% less.

End point though - you shouldn't focus on bleed either way, it doesn't do nearly enough damage in the current game to be worth it. The only thing you get out of it is those sweet bleed explosions gladiator does and those don't scale with bleed damage.
You should take crimson dance, cause it's a bit of free dps with 8 bleed stacks but it's not a huge difference and not worth more than one passive point.
P.S. Bladestorm is really bad for bleed because it attacks fast and causes many weak hits; to maximize bleed damage you'd want a skill that attacks slowly but hits hard (heavy strike, puncture...) or a skill with a big multiplier to bleed damage like lacerate (which is a good clear skill as well).

i see thanks a lot, as i said before, the main reason why i didnt believe it was that i expected the BLOOD and sand archetype gladiator make use of bleed damage(!) with the new skill bladestorm.
but obviously that expectation was incorrect


i will only use bloodletting for the increased attack damage against bleeding enemies and because gladiator has cause to bleed anyways but i dont take crimson dance or the other bleed cluster


thank you all alot for answering

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zat0m wrote:

i see thanks a lot, as i said before, the main reason why i didnt believe it was that i expected the BLOOD and sand archetype gladiator make use of bleed damage(!) with the new skill bladestorm.
but obviously that expectation was incorrect


i will only use bloodletting for the increased attack damage against bleeding enemies and because gladiator has cause to bleed anyways but i dont take crimson dance or the other bleed cluster


thank you all alot for answering

The developers said they were intending to heavily rework bleed and life leech to make them scale better with character progression in 3.8, so I'd suggest waiting for that if you want to play bleed properly.