the need to update uniques

a topic as old as time but something that needs to be reminded, The game is full of uniques that have little to no use.

i am not expecting all uniques to be super endgame material but trhow them a bone so they can be used in nich builds or as a placeholder till we can get the better items.

for instance wideswing

from:
Socketed Gems are Supported by Level 20 Increased Area of Effect
+10 to Strength
(120-160)% increased Physical Damage
Gain 10 Mana per Enemy Killed
+(120-150) to Accuracy Rating
+0.2 metres to Weapon Range

to:

Socketed Gems are Supported by Level 20 Increased Area of Effect
Adds "x to x" Physical Damage to socketed attacks and spells every "x" radius they have.
1% increased Cost of socketed Skills every "x" radius they have
(120-160)% increased Physical Damage
Gain 10 Mana per Enemy Killed
+(120-150) to Accuracy Rating
+0.2 metres to Weapon Range

I agree on one hand.....

On the other...you chose a very poor example. Wideswing is regularly used as a leveling unique as-is. It already fills its role and doesn't need the change you added for it to function any differently. The only difference is you can use it a couple extra levels....which you wouldn't do anyway because you'd just move onto the next unique axe, which is better in every way no matter what the numbers end up being.

Full of uniques that have little to no use: yes...BUT...that's only if you are playing in trade. If you are in SSF, many uniques get usage far and above what trade shows. Why? Because they are nearly all GOOD items, way more powerful than any average rare can possibly be around the same level (or within 10 levels).
Often....it's a matter of timing: if the unique drops too late in your progress, its going to be useless no matter what. But if it drops at the right time, it can be a boon for an entire act or 2.

The only reason you (and me, to an extent) think many uniques are useless is simply because we have access to far better uniques at little-to-no cost. I actually have a LOT of fun leveling with uniques I would never otherwise use and think of ways to maximize them.




This is also a rather unsolvable issue brought on by the crafting control we have in PoE 1. Essences alone render most uniques rather useless, because essence + crafting bench means 2 guaranteed "perfect" mods for what you currently need: there likely isn't a single non-endgame unique that can boast that. Even the ones with gimmicks. I don't foresee a "fix" for this: the entire story can be beaten with act 1 gear, essenced and benchcrafted, for basically every single build. At the point where these easily obtained rare crafts stop pulling their weight, nearly every unique has lost their niche. But then....you can't make all the uniques more powerful to counter that because then they become WAY too strong for early game.

IMHO, GGG broke their uniques long ago with no possible fix when they introduced crafting methods beyond the bench in the early game. All sources of crafting, except orbs and a single benchcraft, should have been limited to endgame.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

I agree on one hand.....

On the other...you chose a very poor example. Wideswing is regularly used as a leveling unique as-is. It already fills its role and doesn't need the change you added for it to function any differently. The only difference is you can use it a couple extra levels....which you wouldn't do anyway because you'd just move onto the next unique axe, which is better in every way no matter what the numbers end up being.

Full of uniques that have little to no use: yes...BUT...that's only if you are playing in trade. If you are in SSF, many uniques get usage far and above what trade shows. Why? Because they are nearly all GOOD items, way more powerful than any average rare can possibly be around the same level (or within 10 levels).
Often....it's a matter of timing: if the unique drops too late in your progress, its going to be useless no matter what. But if it drops at the right time, it can be a boon for an entire act or 2.

The only reason you (and me, to an extent) think many uniques are useless is simply because we have access to far better uniques at little-to-no cost. I actually have a LOT of fun leveling with uniques I would never otherwise use and think of ways to maximize them.

i used wideswing because is a good representation of the state of low tier uniques, Yes they are good compare to same lv items but the period they are useful is to small so they become pointless.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

This is also a rather unsolvable issue brought on by the crafting control we have in PoE 1. Essences alone render most uniques rather useless, because essence + crafting bench means 2 guaranteed "perfect" mods for what you currently need: there likely isn't a single non-endgame unique that can boast that. Even the ones with gimmicks. I don't foresee a "fix" for this: the entire story can be beaten with act 1 gear, essenced and benchcrafted, for basically every single build. At the point where these easily obtained rare crafts stop pulling their weight, nearly every unique has lost their niche. But then....you can't make all the uniques more powerful to counter that because then they become WAY too strong for early game.

IMHO, GGG broke their uniques long ago with no possible fix when they introduced crafting methods beyond the bench in the early game. All sources of crafting, except orbs and a single benchcraft, should have been limited to endgame.

they issue can be solved by giving them some scalability to extend their usage window. Pillar of the caged god is a good example of this, Its great for leveling a STR character and can even be used in a nich build.

I would expect, that most actual endgame uniques are not released yet.

-Every base item is supposed to get a unique
-EA only has the base types of acts 1-3

"

Gamingtwink#3209 wrote:

I would expect, that most actual endgame uniques are not released yet.

-Every base item is supposed to get a unique
-EA only has the base types of acts 1-3

This is a PoE1 thread.

"

caboom#7201 wrote:

they issue can be solved by giving them some scalability to extend their usage window. Pillar of the caged god is a good example of this, Its great for leveling a STR character and can even be used in a nich build.

This is wrong, it doesn't work that way right now and won't work that way in the future. And PoTCG is an excellent example of WHY it won't work. Oni-Goroshi is another. Pillar is an awful example of leveling a strength character.....it is FAR easier to just keep upgrading your axe, which is the standard. Again....essence + crafting bench, or in the case of weapons: belt recipe + crafting bench. No need to specialize your tree or change anything. Same with almost every other piece of gear. The existence of essences, the bench, and fractured items renders all possible unique solutions pretty much obsolete.

That said, here are some problems with adding scaling on non-endgame uniques:

1) Scaling is rather difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish while leveling. Rendering the scaling aspect of the unique pretty much useless until the point in the game where the whole item becomes useless (Pillar / Oni are good examples)

2) There are only so many things that can "scale" or stack beyond damage multipliers. The uniques would stop being unique, and one "aoe stacker" would ultimately be straight up better than the rest.

3) If the scaling is too strong, the item can invalidate the entire game OR it would be more powerful or equal to endgame uniques which is....stupid.

4) If most or all uniques scaled in a way that were doable (ignoring #1), there would be no reason to use any other item, ever. You could pick up a level 1 item and use it all the way until mid to late endgame. There are VERY FEW items like that in the game right now, and for good reason.

Not an exhaustive list, but there it is.

I don't think they are in a terrible place currently, but it can still be improved.

Probably the in-between uniques are the ones that are struggling. Levelling uniques are fine, extreme top end uniques are fine. Its the ones in-between that have fallen off a bit, like you say, because crafting is so powerful. Eldritch implicits has a bit to do with this, and the new tiers of armour bases, which create a gap on the defenses.

Absolutely. Totally. Agree. With. This.
Uniques are what actually make this game run. They are the heart of any build. And the diversity of builds in this game (therefore the players' interest) is mostly based on them. 70% of the current uniques are rotten, useless, weak. Not to mention the stupidity in nerfing uniques that are already rarely used (for example Alberon's boots or Victario's flight).
For years now, I want to glue this to the faces of GGG so they wake up every day with it in front of their faces until they do something about it. Properly.
Please wave this up so they can see it somehow. Because apparently they do not read these forums as they say they are.

Unique item usability can be improved with increased roll ranges.

This is now from the top of my head, but think about Legacy Facebreakers, which rolled up to 1000% crit I think. This was brought down to 750% because Divines back then were dirty cheap and common, and every unique item was effectively max rolled when you wanted it so.

Today the situation would be different. Divines are valuable, so we are not going to be rolling any unique mods on a whim. Mid tier uniques with high max rolls have longer longevity, with max rolls possibly being end game viable, but requiring investments.

Tldr: Bring back old Facebreakers!

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Celd#2630 wrote:

Unique item usability can be improved with increased roll ranges.

This is now from the top of my head, but think about Legacy Facebreakers, which rolled up to 1000% crit I think. This was brought down to 750% because Divines back then were dirty cheap and common, and every unique item was effectively max rolled when you wanted it so.

Today the situation would be different. Divines are valuable, so we are not going to be rolling any unique mods on a whim. Mid tier uniques with high max rolls have longer longevity, with max rolls possibly being end game viable, but requiring investments.

Tldr: Bring back old Facebreakers!

that could work for some uniques but not all, May be the solution is an upgrade system say:

3 x unique item = unique item v2 (total of 3 needed)
4 x unique item v2 = unique item v3 (total of 12 needed)
5 x unique item v3 = unique item v4 (total of 60 needed)
6 x unique item v4 = unique item final vertion (total of 360 needed)

the upgrade would depend on the unique, some would be be the same unique but in a higher level base while others will have their mods upgraded.

if i were to use facebreaker as an example:

standar: (600-800)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
v2: (640-840)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
v3: (680-880)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
v4: (720-920)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
final: (800-1000)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee

this will also create an item sink making all uniques that can be upgraded more valuable.