Sunder Armour Break

Hi, just noticed that Sunder gem does not say "cannot break armour" but still it is unable to do so.

To add to this - you can slot armour break related gems but they do not function. It also does not break armour even with Anvil's Weight ascendancy node

Adding to this as Leap Slam also does not break armour with Anvil's Weight or the Armour Break support.

Bump. Noticed this myself. Any effect that breaks armour does not apply to damage from Sunder. I can see the implicit "Cannot break Armour" on poedb, but it is not shown in game.

Either it needs to be able to break, or that line needs to be added in game.

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TheMaker51#4827 wrote:

Bump. Noticed this myself. Any effect that breaks armour does not apply to damage from Sunder. I can see the implicit "Cannot break Armour" on poedb, but it is not shown in game.

Either it needs to be able to break, or that line needs to be added in game.

Sunder has the Payoff tag which implies that.

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Sunder has the Payoff tag which implies that.

This is a false assumption.

First off, the exact wording for the description of the Payoff tag in game is as follows:

"

Payoff Skills have powerful extra affects when Hitting enemies inflicted with specific Debuffs, often Consuming the Debuff in the process. Payoff Skills cannot inflict the Debuff they interact with.

Sunder does not consume Fully Broken Armour. It applies a secondary debuff upon hitting an enemy already afflicted with Fully Broken Armour. The only clue that the skill cannot inflict broken armour is the last line of the payoff description where it claims that payoff skills cannot inflict the debuff they interact with.

That said, adding the line "Cannot Break Armour" should still be on the gem.

To be clear, I'm less chiding you and more GGG for failing to be consistent with the gem descriptions as there are some gems which specifically state "cannot _____" and work as payoff skills, while there are others which do as Sunder does and gives no indication aside from the payoff tag.

For clarity purposes in game, all gems with the payoff tag should simply state exactly what debuff they cannot inflict.

SSF

Still an issue, you can add armor break gems.

This specific skill doesn't consume fully broken armor. So it should be allowed to apply armor break.

It consumes sunder, which is a completely different effect, that applies on fully broken armor. Sunder also does not consume fully broken armor.

This skill logically should be able to break armor.

You can also not use Explit Weakness on this gem, as it doesn't consume broken armor.

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Swiftstylus#6808 wrote:

"

Sunder has the Payoff tag which implies that.

This is a false assumption.

First off, the exact wording for the description of the Payoff tag in game is as follows:

"

Payoff Skills have powerful extra affects when Hitting enemies inflicted with specific Debuffs, often Consuming the Debuff in the process. Payoff Skills cannot inflict the Debuff they interact with.

Sunder does not consume Fully Broken Armour. It applies a secondary debuff upon hitting an enemy already afflicted with Fully Broken Armour. The only clue that the skill cannot inflict broken armour is the last line of the payoff description where it claims that payoff skills cannot inflict the debuff they interact with.

The description consists of two sentences. The first sentence informs what are payoff skills and what they do. Sunder: Hitting an enemy with Fully Broken Armour applies Sundered Armour, making it take additional increased Physical damage. Does it have an extra effect when hitting enemies with (fully) broken armour? Yes. Does Sunder consume it? No. Is this condition mandatory for a skill to be a Payoff one? Also no, as the word "often" confirms. Is Sunder a payoff skill then? Yes. What payoff skills cannot do? Inflict the debuff they interact with.

So yes, the "only clue" is the second sentence of a two-sentence description, explicitly stating it.

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kazajhodo#6457 wrote:

Still an issue, you can add armor break gems.

This specific skill doesn't consume fully broken armor. So it should be allowed to apply armor break.

Why should it? It's designed not to. You guys just ignore the often word in the tooltip don't you?

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Swiftstylus#6808 wrote:

To be clear, I'm less chiding you and more GGG for failing to be consistent with the gem descriptions as there are some gems which specifically state "cannot _____" and work as payoff skills, while there are others which do as Sunder does and gives no indication aside from the payoff tag.

I'm all for consistency too, do you have any examples of payoff skills that specifically state they cannot inflict the debuff (they interact with)?