Shaper of Storms + Unbound Ailments interaction

I leaguestarted Ignite Eviscerate Elementalist and have generally had a really good time with it. However, there's something that I can't figure out with my shock effect which I'd like some help with.

I've attached a POB, but I'm using Shaper of Storms, with Unbound Ailments in my Eviscerate links. With my current Non-damaging ailment scaling, I'm getting 32% shocks from effects like Tempest Shield (25% *1.3 from effect on tree). When it hit boss with Eviscerate I should have 46% shock effect (25% *1.84 (30% from tree 54% from Unbound Ailments).

But this seems really inconsistent. I was under the impression that the largest shock should apply to the target, but sometimes it seems they keep their 32% shock from Tempest Shield and Eviscerate doesn't shock at all. If the boss hasn't been shocked by Tempest Shield, they get the full 46% shock from Eviscerate.

I'm judging shock effect from the UI under the boss healthbar, so maybe it's a visual bug only? Or maybe Shaper of Storms is only applying with hits against un-shocked enemies? Is there something more to this interaction that I'm not understanding?

Not sure if I can share PoB here. But I have a link if that's helpful.

Not really sure, I took a look at the POB but I don't really understand it. The damage calculation seems to be not including the effect of unbound ailments.

On calculations tab, Shock effect value, 1.84 is counting it, but below that, current shock, 32.5, seems to be using the 1.3 value, with tree nodes applying, but without the unbound ailments. This value is being used the the dps calculation. I tried with stormbracer boots, and same thing, applied to shock effect value, but not the value used in the calculation.

I don't know why that would be, or if it even relates to what you are encountering in game. I tend to think it should apply how you are expecting it too, with the shock of eviscerate overriding TS at a higher value.

I don't have much experience playing shock builds, perhaps someone else is able to explain.

The way I thought it worked, before reading the wiki or POB, was that it just set shock values lower than 25% to 25%, but they seem to say it can scale.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Shaper_of_Storms#cite_note-1

Bump. Does anyone know about this? My Elementalist is not using that ascendancy currently, so would take a bit of work to figure it out.

Im pretty sure Unbound Ailments works only for shock dirrectly from damaging skill. You basicly need global ailment effect to boost Shaper of Storms. Some times when you hit low hp enemies with eviscerate your shock could be bigger, but on high hp targets u just get minimum value from SoS, because hit is not big enough.

Shaper of Storms raises any shock that is BELOW 25% up to a minimum of 25%. It does not change all shocks to be automatically 25% per-se.


So what is likely happening is you aren't inflicting a high enough shock to the boss to go above the base 25% chance set by shaper of storms with your skill + unbound.....so the unbound is "not activating".


Example: your eviscerate with unbound may be hitting for a shock of 15% (random number). This is below the Shaper of Storms 25% so its raised to 25% BUT it has already calculated unbound into that initial (15%) shock value, it will not calculate it again. Now, only global shock value increases are pushing above the 25%.


Order of Operations:
Skill hit w/ supports calculated in, against the enemy ailment threshold.
1) If its ABOVE 25%, uses that value.
2) If its BELOW 25%, Shaper of Storms raises it to 25%

3) Global modifiers on shock effect work on either #1 or #2.

So you're saying the support gem and equipment mods are local and are calculated before scaling the shaper of storms value, and have no further effect if below the 25% breakpoint, but the tree nodes are global and do scale the value?

That does seem to fit with the POB calculations.

However, it doesn't seem likely to me that they were hitting exactly 25%, to get a 46% shock value when hitting the boss with eviscerate first. The lighting range on their skill is 156 to 82430. Seems to me that the values they would of been seeing above 32% would of been highly variable. I know shock values get harder to scale at higher values, but it seems to me too much of a coincidence that they were hitting that exact number and not sometimes going to high values.

Why also would this only occur if they hit with eviscerate first, and not if there was an existing lower value from the tempest shield? It does sound like from what they are describing, that the existing shock value was preventing the higher value from being applied.

(For anyone looking at the POB, it looks like OP has made some slight character changes since the original post, but it is basically working as it was with a few adjusted values.)

Support gems are ALWAYS local to the skill. Always. That's no different with the ailment buffs.

Shaper of Storms is NOT your skill, it is a passive. So the supports on your skill that would have an effect on its shock value will NOT effect the Shaper of Storms minimum shock value, if that minimum shock value is chosen.

All other modifiers to shock effect happen AFTER that initial choice of skill versus minimum Shaper.



The discrepancy between 32% and 46% from the OP is likely due to ailment threshold differences between the enemies he is looking at. We can test this by changing the target of our attacks in PoB. By default I'm pretty sure its showing you "boss" values, which is why the 32% is showing in the damage calculation and NOT the 46%. Plus the higher value shock WOULDN'T be highly variable because all those enemies are SUPER easy to shock, especially when he's dealing over a million damage. He's hitting maximum shock basically all the time.

***Yep, just confirmed that in PoB: changing the target to "no" instead of any boss raises the dps thanks to the higher shock (and higher ignites and things too)

Something we didn't consider here is the fact that.....the shocks could simply be expiring. Shock duration is 2 seconds, and eviscerate is an attack with a 3 second cooldown. Even reduced, I bet he's not hitting with Eviscerate all that often, especially if he's also dodging.

He is seeing the shocks change between attacks because the attacks are too far apart to consistently have the 46% up. I don't know. We are relying a bit too much on the accuracy of the OP's description of what he is seeing, without a video to reference.

But I am 100% sure of the way Shaper works. And I'm pretty sure devs have explained it in the past at some point too. Base ailment from skill is compared against the minimum values from the shapers, the higher value is chosen, and then it is scaled by global mods.

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The discrepancy between 32% and 46% from the OP is likely due to ailment threshold differences between the enemies he is looking at. We can test this by changing the target of our attacks in PoB. By default I'm pretty sure its showing you "boss" values, which is why the 32% is showing in the damage calculation and NOT the 46%. Plus the higher value shock WOULDN'T be highly variable because all those enemies are SUPER easy to shock, especially when he's dealing over a million damage. He's hitting maximum shock basically all the time.

They aren't using POB as far as i'm aware. They said this is happening on a single boss enemy they are engaging.

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He is seeing the shocks change between attacks because the attacks are too far apart to consistently have the 46% up. I don't know. We are relying a bit too much on the accuracy of the OP's description of what he is seeing, without a video to reference.

I agree, they say themself that they are not that confident of knowing exactly what is going, so there is not enough certainty to go off. The best thing to do would be for me to try and replicate it. I'm a bit lazy to do that, but it wouldn't be that hard to do. I have some interest, so if they come back or I find some time later I'll give it a go.

I agree with all your description of the local and global mechanics. That is a good description, you have a good understanding of how the mechanics are programed beyond just the numbers.