having 0 mana prevents 0 mana reservations

How to reproduce:

Equip nexus gloves and a 60% reduced mana "whispers of infinity", with 20 fertile catalyst it becomes 72% reduced. With the gloves it totals to 102% reduced and you have 0 mana if you have no increases elsewhere.
So skills that reserve a percentage of maximum mana (petrified blood for example) should reserve 0 mana. They are disabled instead and the tooltip shows "not enough mana"

Note that this is not a problem of the cost compared to the total, but rather a problem of reservations (or mana but it seems unlikely): for example if you add the agnostic keystone and try to use manabond you still can spend 0 out of 0 energy shield.


What should have happened instead:

every skill that reserve a percentage of maximum mana should have been usable at the same time :)

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every skill that reserve a percentage of maximum mana should have been usable at the same time :)

It will be bug exploit level if you have 0 mana and then you can use all the aura and herald

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It will be bug exploit level if you have 0 mana and then you can use all the aura and herald

Yep! But with the current mechanics that's how it should have worked. Aurastackers before the introduction of reservation efficiency were able to activate a ton of these (but not all, and with higher investment)

Also there's a simple workaround if they want the game to be consistent without changing the game mechanics, it's to reduce the drawbacks of either the gloves or the amulet (the only 2 sources of reduced maximum mana outside of standard)

edit: I'm bad at english

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So skills that reserve a percentage of maximum mana […] should reserve 0 mana

No, they shouldn't.
If you have no resource then you're unable to reserve any amount of the resource. This would also be true for a theoretical situation where you have 0 mana and a skill that reserves 0% or flat 0 mana. That's why "0 reservation" in this game is implemented as "# has no reservation".

Besides whispers of infinity and nexus gloves there are voll's protector and plenty of mirrored by reflecting mist drop-only rings from delve and amulets from alva's temple.

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try to use manabond you still can spend 0 out of 0 energy shield

That's a bug.

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No, they shouldn't.
If you have no resource then you're unable to reserve any amount of the resource. This would also be true for a theoretical situation where you have 0 mana and a skill that reserves 0% or flat 0 mana. That's why "0 reservation" in this game is implemented as "# has no reservation".

I'm pretty sure that "you have no..." is just implemented as setting that value to 0 instead of computing it, but that's just an educated guess (I'm a developer but not at ggg)

I'm talking about a practical situation, not a theoretical one. If you have any source about this being the correct behavior or a precedent that behaves the way you're saying I would love to learn about that.

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Besides whispers of infinity and nexus gloves there are voll's protector and plenty of mirrored by reflecting mist drop-only rings from delve and amulets from alva's temple.

You're right on this, my bad!

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try to use manabond you still can spend 0 out of 0 energy shield

That's a bug.

pretty sure that if a skill would bring my mana to exactly 0 I'm still able to cast it, and unable if it would make my mana go below 0 which is exactly this situation (and expected behavior). I need to think of a simple test setup

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try to use manabond you still can spend 0 out of 0 energy shield

That's a bug.

pretty sure that if a skill would bring my mana to exactly 0 I'm still able to cast it, and unable if it would make my mana go below 0 which is exactly this situation (and expected behavior). I need to think of a simple test setup

just tested it with praxis + omeyocan + scorching ray of immolation, I'm obviously able to spend my 0 mana

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So skills that reserve a percentage of maximum mana […] should reserve 0 mana

No, they shouldn't.
If you have no resource then you're unable to reserve any amount of the resource. This would also be true for a theoretical situation where you have 0 mana and a skill that reserves 0% or flat 0 mana. That's why "0 reservation" in this game is implemented as "# has no reservation".

by the way, I just proved it's actually bugged and not working the way you think

equip flamability impresence with blasphemy + flammability + pride + purity of elements

you can then activate flammability only if it's not the last one you activate, otherwise the tooltips says "not enough mana"

so pride (50% mana remaining) > flammability (50% mana remaining) > purity of elements (0% remaining) works
but not pride (50% mana remaining) > purity of elements (0% remaining) > flammability (0% mana remaining)

You've proved that poe codebase is a hot garbage.
The post repeats the logic that was used by ggg as I recall when they've hotfixed the "0 mana, all auras" abuse.

That doesn't sound right.

1) If you have 100% or more reduced mana - you're sitting at 0 mana. Also, your max is still there but hidden. So it's 0/(insert max mana value here). And because your maximum mana is not truly 0 for its total, the game knows this. In other words, instead of being at 0/0 mana, you're at 0/1500 (using some random close value for total here).

2) "So skills that reserve a percentage of maximum mana (petrified blood for example) should reserve 0 mana. They are disabled instead, and the tooltip shows "not enough mana""

- Don't think so. Everything still requires mana (50%, etc). And game sees that it can't reserve 25% or 50% of say 1500 of what actual max mana should be (or something close to that, I'm guesstimating) it just gets disabled. This effect is similar to trying to use a skill that costs mana than you have available. Now, if you have 100% reduced mana reservation or costs (i.e 100%+ mana reservation efficiency of skills) then it makes sense there's no cost for those auras or skills and u can stack and use them freely.

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1) If you have 100% or more reduced mana - you're sitting at 0 mana. Also, your max is still there but hidden. So it's 0/(insert max mana value here). And because your maximum mana is not truly 0 for its total, the game knows this. In other words, instead of being at 0/0 mana, you're at 0/1500 (using some random close value for total here).

that's not true, it is the maximum mana that is reduced to 0

made more research, someone had already this idea a long time ago (probably what ThisIsAJoke tried to link): https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3204029

and it got hotfixed quickly due to community backlash: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3205425

introducing this bug:

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so pride (50% mana remaining) > flammability (50% mana remaining) > purity of elements (0% remaining) works
but not pride (50% mana remaining) > purity of elements (0% remaining) > flammability (0% mana remaining)

I'm guessing they won't be revamping the whole reservation mechanic when they're focused mainly on PoE2 and modern ggg care more about the balance than the game being coherent :/