The -15% exp penalty is obnoxiously bad outdated design.

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raz0r_boy wrote:

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Nagisawa wrote:

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raz0r_boy wrote:

I'm currently lvl 71...cold witch with 2,5K ES and CI (=1 hp!) and not capped res at all, in fact i'm negative on some...and yet i still get by...
Your excuses are not valid...either you play right, tactically that is...or you get your resistances/armor/evas in place..
If you die, it's YOUR fault, not the games...(excluding DC's and so forth ofc)

So what? Why does it matter why you die?

Why should I be punished for trying to have fun in a game?

Games, I thought, were meant to be enjoyed.

If you aren't enjoying it, why do you continue to play? where is it statet that the game should meet everyone's needs?

Why are you always going with an 'all or nothing' extreme argument? That's not what I said, and I'm pretty sure you know it.

And games in general, should be fun. Especially ones where the dev's ask you to put money into it, rather than buying it at a premium cost. But that's not the point.

The point is that although the REST of the game is pretty fun, this death penalty just seems excessive and counterproductive to EVERYONE'S interests, even those players who like it.

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raz0r_boy wrote:

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Nagisawa wrote:

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raz0r_boy wrote:

I'm currently lvl 71...cold witch with 2,5K ES and CI (=1 hp!) and not capped res at all, in fact i'm negative on some...and yet i still get by...
Your excuses are not valid...either you play right, tactically that is...or you get your resistances/armor/evas in place..
If you die, it's YOUR fault, not the games...(excluding DC's and so forth ofc)

So what? Why does it matter why you die?

Why should I be punished for trying to have fun in a game?

Games, I thought, were meant to be enjoyed.

If you aren't enjoying it, why do you continue to play? where is it statet that the game should meet everyone's needs?

always the same argument you and your strange friends bring in every diskussion

i can call my self quiet a good player (for your better understanding played until lvl68 with 1k ES solo most time, so i think my reactions are good enough) but you are forced to a survival built and absolutley carfully playstyle or you loose a lot of time, this doesnt improve my feeling in the game at anyway, it feels like sneaking around like a fucking chicken

this is still a beta, why shouldnt we argue against things/mechanics we want to have changed in a BETA FEEDBACKforum, goddamit and now comes a "go back to d3 and wow" at next or?

(btw i played d3 and wow wuhuhuhu and hundrets of other games, if every player who ever tried d3 or wow quits this game, than i wish GGG good luck)

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greenxite wrote:

Scrubcore Problems....i dont understand

This.

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Nagisawa wrote:

Why are you always going with an 'all or nothing' extreme argument? That's not what I said, and I'm pretty sure you know it.

And games in general, should be fun. Especially ones where the dev's ask you to put money into it, rather than buying it at a premium cost. But that's not the point.

The point is that although the REST of the game is pretty fun, this death penalty just seems excessive and counterproductive to EVERYONE'S interests, even those players who like it.

It's not an "all or nothing" argument, it'a valid question. If i do not enjoy something, as i this case a game...i have 2 choices, i accept that the way the game is designed and i quit playing cause of xyz reason..

OR, i accept it, and try to counter that mecanic by implying either better tactics or more defensiveness to NOT get killed.

What you are doing is claiming that the game is not fun for you, and therefore should be changed to meet your perception of what is fun and enjoyable..and then argue for it by using a term called "Argumentum ad populum", basically saying that "everyone wants this" or as you state it "counterproductive to EVERYONE'S interests", wich for obvious reasons, isn't true...there is A LOT of people that have accepted this and find it thrilling, how about those people?

You knew about this (or should have known) before you invested money, and yet you did, and now you're claiming some type of right to change the mecanics because of that? what you did was support a game (the devs to be specific) in it's current state...that involves the penalty..that does not mean that it automatically grants a change request..
You may of course voice it, that's your right, that's why the forum is here..

What irritates me the most are all these "everyone wants it" threads that pop up all the time cause someone failed to read the notes and then "suddenly" realise that they can't go all in on their build..

The argument is that it forces people to go more defensive, wich is the case yes, but that is also something that has been communicated quite clearly..some find that braindead and not fun at all, and some find that extremely challenging..
I'm not saying that either one is right or wrong, but what i am claiming is that it is NOT the games fault if you die alot, since others clearly manage it..
What you also have to take in concideration is that almost any form of attack, can be countered in one way or the other...
Getting consistenly killed by flickers? get an eye of chayula! frozen much? get a dream fragments...there's a way around more or less everything if you just spend some time _thinking_ instead of just going heads on (not saying you do that but you get the point)

I'd like to remind the "hardcores" (facepalm...) that nobody asked/suggested that they should not be able to enjoy the game in the conditions they like. People are just asking for more personalised content delivery, so you can have your hardcore fun, in the way you choose, and the "scrubcores" (facepalm...) can have their fun in the way they choose, without affecting the hardcores. I bet on my life the softies would have absolutely nothing to do with the hardcores inside the game, in the forums or anywhere else. You guys are just damn scary :\

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Undon3 wrote:

I'd like to remind the "hardcores" (facepalm...) that nobody asked/suggested that they should not be able to enjoy the game in the conditions they like. People are just asking for more personalised content delivery, so you can have your hardcore fun, in the way you choose, and the "scrubcores (facepalm...) can have their fun in the way they choose, without affecting the hardcores. I bet on my life the softies would have absolutely nothing to do with the hardcores inside the game, in the forums or anywhere else. You guys are just damn scary :\

This

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Zulgohlan wrote:

everybody speakin of choices between dmg and survival and so other shit on builds

you have no fucking choice in your builds, survival or making zero progress, cause 15% is too high loss at high level youll never bring in with little more dmgnodes

and only why there is an punishment people play carefully? thats the same rubbish, i dont want to die in any way

Of course you have a choice Zulho

If you choose to have more damaging improvement-passives than survivability, you'll have to be more careful is all.

It just requires a tad more skill and alertness to be aware of the whole battlefield at all times with a preference of damage over survivability, it becomes more of a challenge.

Nobody WANTS to die in any way.

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Kwonryu wrote:

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Zulgohlan wrote:

everybody speakin of choices between dmg and survival and so other shit on builds

you have no fucking choice in your builds, survival or making zero progress, cause 15% is too high loss at high level youll never bring in with little more dmgnodes

and only why there is an punishment people play carefully? thats the same rubbish, i dont want to die in any way

Of course you have a choice Zulho

If you choose to have more damaging improvement-passives than survivability, you'll have to be more careful is all.

It just requires a tad more skill and alertness to be aware of the whole battlefield at all times with a preference of damage over survivability, it becomes more of a challenge.

Nobody WANTS to die in any way.

Which means you are pretty much forced to build as a tank

So much for customization

"Tank" is a term I would use to define a player's role in a party. A Tank can take a lot of hits and draw damage away from his teammates. A tank doesn't necessarily have high DPS, but might have some hard CC or taunts. While it's certainly possible to build a tank, I think most characters in PoE can at best build "semi-tanky", but not pure tank.

And yes, in this game it is important to build defensively. Is there anything wrong with discouraging glass cannon builds?

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dashgalaxy86 wrote:

"Tank" is a term I would use to define a player's role in a party. A Tank can take a lot of hits and draw damage away from his teammates. A tank doesn't necessarily have high DPS, but might have some hard CC or taunts. While it's certainly possible to build a tank, I think most characters in PoE can at best build "semi-tanky", but not pure tank.

And yes, in this game it is important to build defensively. Is there anything wrong with discouraging glass cannon builds?

I don't think it's so much discouraging glass cannon builds per se, but part of the issue is that the exp penalty combined with the notion that you honestly have to build so defensively rubs people the wrong way. Now, this doesn't mean that I PERSONALLY am against an exp penalty (I personally don't mind it and I've died a few times in Merciless already), but it does compound the already existing problem with defense having a bit too much emphasis in this game. Practically any character or build has a lot of passive points eaten up just to grab the almighty %-Life nodes and not being able to skip those in favor of maybe picking up other abilities to diversify your build and make it your own means build creativity gets stifled some.

Now, add that onto the exp penalty and it can quickly become a very frustrating thing for people. I realize this is a bit of a tangent compared to what the original topic may have been about, but I do think it does warrant some discussion because it is part of the issue.