Concerns from a lab lover

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Well to not overlevel as some were complaining regarding the XP - on that char you don't actually need to get "end game" - and just view the tier 1-7 as end game?

Ekhm, do you actually understand reason they added "-1" option to game? Maybe let's not spoil Snorkle topic, but I assure you, that not for low level maps farming.

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

wasn't it maps T7 to T11 from the podcast?

Well, Bex just mentioned today "lower maps" so we assumed it's T1-7...

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Endgame Trials of Ascendancy
There are a new set of six Trials that can be occasionally found in maps. They all occur in lower maps, and it is intentional that it takes some time to complete the set of all six.

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tmaciak wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Well to not overlevel as some were complaining regarding the XP - on that char you don't actually need to get "end game" - and just view the tier 1-7 as end game?

Ekhm, do you actually understand reason they added "-1" option to game? Maybe let's not spoil Snorkle topic, but I assure you, that not for low level maps farming.

I do understand why, but not everyone needs to have an 100 lvl character to be satisfied in this game, and I do hate when I have to farm overleveled as hell a map, and I don't always have time to reroll a diffrent char, but nevermind...

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Its ok that even the few who truly like the content dont play it because the incentive is actually a deterrent? No, its not ok.

I dont buy maps, I dont buy midnights, I do not buy access to content, its that simple. That is an offensive concept to me that I have to trade for my access to game content. Fuck trade, thats how I feel about trade when it comes to my access to play the game.

I bring up problems with content, answer is trade for the lab runs, no wait dont even run the lab trade for the items and dont engage with content at all. No, not good enough.


I dont accept "just ignore content and trade instead" as a response to my feedback on how I feel about engaging with content. If GGG want to make engaging content that people feel excited to play then they need to hear why their content is failing to live up to that.

I feel the same way too, it would be just better to just make it easier to access content, but right now, the game direction is to put emphasis on the economics of trading to access content, which is just too sad from my point of view...

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Well to not overlevel as some were complaining regarding the XP - on that char you don't actually need to get "end game" - and just view the tier 1-7 as end game? If you could just farm up to T7 efficiently (heck I even dropped a Shav in a Pier once) so you could get currency/finds/div cards and those lab fragments I don't think it would be that awful from a casual player point of view, and the pro's could always buy the fragments...

I think ur misunderstanding the gripe, the gripe is that I will get no xp from those maps on any character that Ive been playing for more than a matter of days. Its not about currency penalty, you get no currency penalty in lower maps other than they are not worth alching, so you got no real quant on them. Any content where you dont get somewhat decent xp is not fit for endgame grinding, its a waste of your time because you just 1 shot everything and then get no reward. Items are not a good enough reward for running content, rare items are such junk 99.9999999% of the time and currency amounts you find are so meaningless when looked at over a period of a few hours that there is nothing at all worth your time playing hour by hour other than the challenge of the mobs and the gradual xp. Low maps have neither, hence there is no point in playing them. Deleveling your character to continue getting effective xp is obviously not an option.


Why does Her Mask drop in maps? Because eventually GGG realised that people who actually play the game dont enjoy feeling like their time is being wasted for 100s of hours grinding meaningless content. They need to stop forcing players to do things they hate for prolonged periods, its one thing to force me to run 4 labs then Im done, its another to force me to endlessly grind low maps for lab maps forever into the future of this game.

They either do no understand what meaningful endgame content is or do not understand that everything they require us to do in endgame for long periods of time must be meaningful or we will hate it, and hate them for making us do it in order to get access to meaningful stuff. Stop with the forced meaningless grinding, its rage inducing and unnecessary. You guys at GGG decided white maps should be too shitty to bother playing, you set the monster levels, the xp penalty, you set everything up that made them meaningless, its your fault they have no meaning and this doesnt give them meaning, this simply forces me to play no meaning content which means spamming through areas not even fighting monsters with a movement speed build looking for trails. fuck that, seriously.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

As for trade, I cant trade for my enchants. On rats nest and vertex yes maybe, on chars who use rare hats, no, I have my hats, my hats cannot be bought, they do not exist other than the 1 that I own. Heres the thing, I can buy some of them and not run the lab... Ok, so whos running the bloody lab then if Im what seems like a minority of people who actually enjoy it? Its ok that even the few who truly like the content dont play it because the incentive is actually a deterrent? No, its not ok.

Didn't you see the VOC reddit post from Perandus?

He and his guildies run 6 man groups through the lab, multiple 6 man groups concurrently, they recruit people from the public to run with some deal I can't recall, they have groups pushing into early high maps and accumulating all good white bases and meta uniques.

They then filter out combinations that would be desirable and throw them on poe.trade. So you have your Hubris with +2 spark, your Rat's with LA hits, etc as hotpicks then some maybe not so meta but possibly desirable combos, then some niche combos, then some nope - nope - thataintworking combos.

All but the last can go up on poe.trade, ones that are not selling and repeating can be recycled, with a steady supply of bases, a huge market demand (because getting your enchant any other way is futile) and even having those fools who decide to run the lab for their own enchant, cut their losses by taking your deal and running with you.

But, then you have to craft the base if it isn't a unique? Yes, temp leagues, people generally start with a white base from a high map bought from someone else, there's just a whole massive scale process added between it dropping and being sold.

But, what about Standard players who have their gear? What about people who don't want to trade? Fuck them, and fuck the other them double. Shopping game in temp leagues or GTFO.


Seriously, when I saw the VOC thread on reddit, I was just like 'well, GGG gonna get such a boner from this, more to come for sure'.

It doesn't matter if most people are not running the lab, it doesn't matter if it's a tiny portion of people running the content for the masses, what matters is economy.

I think those voc guys just wanted more people grinding lab so they could buy the enchants they wanted.

There's literally 0 enchants I'm looking for on suitable helms on standard. Doesn't matter if my budget is 5ex or 500ex, poe.trade is not a solution at all.

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Vhlad wrote:

I think those voc guys just wanted more people grinding lab so they could buy the enchants they wanted.

There's literally 0 enchants I'm looking for on suitable helms on standard. Doesn't matter if my budget is 5ex or 500ex, poe.trade is not a solution at all.

That's because they did it on Perandus.

It's not that poe.trade is not a solution, it is a solution, it's THE solution, it's THE design.

It's that nothing is designed for Standard. Standard died to GGG the day it ceased to be the very first temp league (unbeknown to us) and the bait and switch complete.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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InAshesTheyShallReap wrote:

wasn't it maps T7 to T11 from the podcast?

Well, Bex just mentioned today "lower maps" so we assumed it's T1-7...

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Endgame Trials of Ascendancy
There are a new set of six Trials that can be occasionally found in maps. They all occur in lower maps, and it is intentional that it takes some time to complete the set of all six.

ya thats all Im going on, the rant about the hats is a real rant about a real thing in the game, the rant about grinding white maps is a theoretical rant in a worst case scenario where they literally mean "white maps only" and not simply "anything other than red maps". while lower maps to me means white, it may not to them, and Im not going to risk waiting for patch day to find out if theres a chance anything I or others in this thread say will have any influence on what may be a still liquid concept for all I know.

Atziri was same problem and thankfully now we have Her Mask, they fixed that issue to some extent. They could do something similar, Im not saying the trials have to be in all maps or Im going to be mr tanturm crybaby, but if its white maps only and thats the only way we can get to access the lab without trading for it then yeah Im gonna hate it, big time and join all these other people on the total hate train for the content. Right now Im on the hype train, I love the lab, I really dont want it to become content I never run because its entirely pointless and I have no access other than trade.

right now speed running merc lab is pointless because theres only prizes for the 1 top player, running lab for hat enchants is pointless because it feels like farming docks for mirrors for all the hope you have of ever getting something good. The concept is being completely ruined by a failure to make it feel rewarding. This needs to change and we really dont need the endgame lab having a similar set of issues that ruin it and stop interested players actually engaging with the content. Im interested in merciless lab running, but I wont bother until they fix the issues Ive just described, until then as far as Im concerned its the most amazing waste of time they have ever squandered by getting such tiny details wrong.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

I think those voc guys just wanted more people grinding lab so they could buy the enchants they wanted.

There's literally 0 enchants I'm looking for on suitable helms on standard. Doesn't matter if my budget is 5ex or 500ex, poe.trade is not a solution at all.

That's because they did it on Perandus.

It's not that poe.trade is not a solution, it is a solution, it's THE solution, it's THE design.

It's that nothing is designed for Standard. Standard died to GGG the day it ceased to be the very first temp league (unbeknown to us) and the bait and switch complete.

I just checked perandus. Poe.trade is not a solution there either.

That whole VOC thread was desperate social engineering to get more players grinding enchants on bases because the supply of desirable enchants on desirable bases was too low. It's still too low.

There's under 10 hubris circlets with +2 spark on perandus, for example, and that's a popular one. If you're looking for something more niche like fire nova mine repeats an addition time an any hubris, 0 results, or 2 results for ice nova radius, or 1 result for elemental hit damage (lol), 3 results for ball lightning radius, etc. The really popular stuff is under 15 results and the super niche stuff is lucky to have more than 3 results. And that's looking at any hubris circlet. If your requirements are more specific (like a vertex) in most cases it's 0 results. I've just checked 10 random things like ethereal knives damage, storm call damage, kinetic blast damage and they were all 0 results if your required base is a vertex.

Issue n. 1. I hope it is just some kind of typo. Chris in podcast sounded more like these trials will be available from mid tier and higher. If I'm not mistaken he explicitly said that because of this you wont need to run ONLY high level maps. This sounded way more reasonable then having trials being only in low to mid tier...

Issue n2 2. At least they could provide us with option to decide if you either want to accept new enchant or keep previous one... this would eliminate situations when u have kinda okay enchant (but still not the one you want) and u get useless crap instead.