ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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Khoranth wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Spoiler

Spoiler

HAHAHAHA! You believe that liar's nonsense!! HAHAHAHA!

60% of the California forests are controlled by the federal government

1/3 of the California forests are controlled by private individuals

6% of the California forest are controlled by California

Contrary to the lie told by our president, the cause of the California fires is primarily that we're in the seventh year of a drought, there are very high winds, and many people have built homes in these forested areas. Of course, you will continue believing whatever lies Trump spews though.

Notice that Trump doesn't even bother telling the caravan invasion lie anymore? You've been had once again.

BTW, did you get your degree from Trump University before it was closed down for fraud? If not I can sell you a degree just as valid from Turtledove University.

Seriously, can you explain how Trump lied? He said bad management of forests led to the fires. In his quote, he acknowledges that the federal gov't pays billions to manage the forests, Trump never suggests that the federal gov't is not involved in the management. In Trump's quote he basically says forest management sucks, do a better job, or I may pull funding. Trump never blamed gov't of California, he blamed the people managing the forests.

Perhaps you mean he is wrong? There is a difference between being wrong and lying. You get that, right?

Trump said,

"

With proper Forest Management, we can stop the devastation constantly going on in California. Get smart!

"

“California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren't allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire spreading!”

"

There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/california-wildfires-trump-tweet-malibu-camp-fire-woolsey-hill-ventura-county-a8629801.html

Trump says explicitly that "There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor"

This is False. the reasons for the Massive deadly and costly fire are as I mentioned.

"

the cause of the California fires is primarily that we're in the seventh year of a drought, there are very high winds, and many people have built homes in these forested areas

You claim that he never blamed California. This assertion does not make sense in light of his assertion that he demands that the poor forest management be fixed now or there would be no more Fed payments. Federal payments would only be made to California in this for forest management.

what does "lie" mean? Here's two definitions.

"

To give false information intentionally with intent to deceive.

Arguably, President Trump may here be trying to simply deceive people into believing that it is all California's fault because he has a penchant for blaming the victim when the victims are a group that he doesn't like and when doing so he shows a complete disregard for the truth when applying blame to victims.

I consider the above much more accurate for this case but, there's also the below.

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To be mistaken or unintentionally spread false information.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Well since we're rerailing off of my derail, let it be remembered that I can get Turtledove and his ilk to swallow any idea, no matter how vile (e.g. race realism and regression to the mean), as long as it's wrapped in a postmodern-deconstructionist victimhood narrative. The alt-right truly are just SJWs with the polarity reversed.

All done. Carry on.

Always prepare counter trap card.

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k1rage wrote:

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MrCoo1 wrote:

what cereal do you need ID for?

Also you do need ID to vote im my state

In a recent interview Trump said “The disgrace is that, voter ID. If you buy, you know, a box of cereal, if you do anything, you have a voter ID.”

Why doesn’t everyone have an ID? Some of these are state issued ID and these might not be accepted outside your own state. You have some places accepting driving licences as ID and Some just don't. You have nonsense like citizens with IDs aren't able to vote because they have wrong ones.

I don't agree with State ID, having a national database of its own citizens and issuing National ID make better sense. U.S. not only need ID, they need an universally accepted forms of primary identification. U.S. have no nationally, or even locally mandated standard.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

If only he'd have said you need ID to buy a decent cup of coffee.

Why do American need ID for cereal and coffee? We only need ID for beer. (Only if you look underage)

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Turtledove wrote:

Arguably, President Trump may here be trying to simply deceive people into believing that it is all California's fault because he has a penchant for blaming the victim when the victims are a group that he doesn't like and when doing so he shows a complete disregard for the truth when applying blame to victims.

I would argue that forest management likely has room to improve. Partly, yes, California would be to blame. Hard to have a conversation about that when people are so quick to rant on about climate change. Also true is it’s hard to have an effective dialogue when the current administration was elected to yell back.

A couple of points before bed:
California issues permits for everything. Bathroom tiles don’t get laid without permission. The location of and resources allocated to new communities could be better managed (source: wife, a California expatriate).

Mismanagement is not a rare phenomenon. The likelihood that forest management or other political organizations bear a non-zero amount of responsibility is likewise non-zero.

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CanHasPants wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Arguably, President Trump may here be trying to simply deceive people into believing that it is all California's fault because he has a penchant for blaming the victim when the victims are a group that he doesn't like and when doing so he shows a complete disregard for the truth when applying blame to victims.

I would argue that forest management likely has room to improve. Partly, yes, California would be to blame. Hard to have a conversation about that when people are so quick to rant on about climate change. Also true is it’s hard to have an effective dialogue when the current administration was elected to yell back.

A couple of points before bed:
California issues permits for everything. Bathroom tiles don’t get laid without permission. The location of and resources allocated to new communities could be better managed (source: wife, a California expatriate).

Mismanagement is not a rare phenomenon. The likelihood that forest management or other political organizations bear a non-zero amount of responsibility is likewise non-zero.

I thought building permits in California were handled at the local level rather than the state level but, I only have gotten a couple of building permits so perhaps I'm mistaken or outdated?

I'm sure forest management has room for improvement but it's really not a significant factor in the drought conditions with high force winds.

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Turtledove wrote:

Contrary to the lie told by our president, the cause of the California fires is primarily that we're in the seventh year of a drought

High winds, no rain - must be why the Sahara Desert has all those wildfires.

"Sierra Blaze

On June 19, 1997 a Nevada County jury in Nevada City found PG&E guilty of "a pattern of tree-trimming violations that sparked a devastating 1994 wildfire in the Sierra." "PG&E was convicted of 739 counts of criminal negligence for failing to trim trees near its power lines—the biggest criminal conviction ever against the state's largest utility.""

October 2017 Northern California Wildfires


In October of 2017, PG&E was responsible for their own lines and poles starting twelve separate fires of the 250 that devastated Northern California. These fires were caused by "electric power and distribution lines, conductors and the failure of power poles".[101] Pending further investigation, the following fires have been confirmed by CAL FIRE investigators to have been started by PG&E equipment: The Redwood Fire of Mendocino County, The Sulphur Fire of Lake County, The Cherokee Fire of Butte County, The 37 Fire of Sonoma County, The Blue Fire of Humboldt County, The Pocket Fire of Sonoma County, The Atlas Fire of Napa County and the Norrbom, Adobe, Partrick, Pythian and Nuns fires of Sonoma and Napa county.[101]
Camp Fire

Camp Fire (2018)


"State officials have not yet determined the cause of this month’s deadly blazes, but already investigators are looking at a possible PG&E electrical transmission line malfunction for sparking the fire the destroyed the town of Paradise.

If that turns out to the be case, PG&E could face massive lawsuits on top of the 200 or so the utility is already contending with from the deadly 2017 fires.

The California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection blamed PG&E equipment for starting at least 16 of those fires last year. And they could cost the utility up to an estimate $15 billion in damages, according to published reports."

(from those right wingers at NBC and CNN) https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/eyed-california-fires-pacific-gas-electric-utility-has-pushed-lighter-n935941

"PG&E stock at its lowest in 15 years on concern over California utility’s wildfire liability "
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pge-stocks-and-bonds-hammered-on-worry-it-may-be-liable-for-california-wildfire-2018-11-14

"PG&E disclosed in a regulatory filing Tuesday that it "experienced an outage" on a transmission line in Butte County at 6:15 a.m. on November 8 -- just 15 minutes before the Camp Fire broke out.

PG&E added that if its equipment is found to be responsible for the fire, PG&E "could be subject to significant liability in excess of insurance coverage" and that this could have "a material impact" on its financial results."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/investing/pge-stock-plunge-california-fires-liability/index.html



She picked a bad time to be at the helm of PG&E.

Not that the state of California's laws didn't put PG&E into a bind where they had to find drastic ways to cut costs:



Are you sure the Turtledove University is accredited?

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DalaiLama wrote:

Are you sure the Turtledove University is accredited?

I'm sure that it is unaccredited. All completely distant learning, no class time required. Heck no classes even required if you're looking for experience based degrees.

More details are available. Just let us know what you're interested in and how much you're willing to throw away ... ahh ... I mean spend and I'm sure we can accommodate you. Just remember that the more you pay the higher the value. Note that there's no extra charge for printed diplomas, just pay separate shipping and handling.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Khoranth wrote:

Seriously, can you explain how Trump lied? He said bad management of forests led to the fires. In his quote, he acknowledges that the federal gov't pays billions to manage the forests, Trump never suggests that the federal gov't is not involved in the management. In Trump's quote he basically says forest management sucks, do a better job, or I may pull funding. Trump never blamed gov't of California, he blamed the people managing the forests.

Perhaps you mean he is wrong? There is a difference between being wrong and lying. You get that, right?

Trump said,

"

With proper Forest Management, we can stop the devastation constantly going on in California. Get smart!

"

“California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren't allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire spreading!”

"

There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/california-wildfires-trump-tweet-malibu-camp-fire-woolsey-hill-ventura-county-a8629801.html

Trump says explicitly that "There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor"

This is False. the reasons for the Massive deadly and costly fire are as I mentioned.

"

the cause of the California fires is primarily that we're in the seventh year of a drought, there are very high winds, and many people have built homes in these forested areas

You claim that he never blamed California. This assertion does not make sense in light of his assertion that he demands that the poor forest management be fixed now or there would be no more Fed payments. Federal payments would only be made to California in this for forest management.

what does "lie" mean? Here's two definitions.

"

To give false information intentionally with intent to deceive.

Arguably, President Trump may here be trying to simply deceive people into believing that it is all California's fault because he has a penchant for blaming the victim when the victims are a group that he doesn't like and when doing so he shows a complete disregard for the truth when applying blame to victims.

I consider the above much more accurate for this case but, there's also the below.

"

To be mistaken or unintentionally spread false information.

Trump blamed the people managing the forests, and acknowledged this was a federal funded program. SO he clearly was not blaming the California gov't, he is clearly blaming the actual people managing the forests.

If you want to make an argument that he is wrong in his assessment, go for it, but that is not lying.

Your opinion is that Trump is wrong, maybe your right, who knows? But clearly Trump has told no lie.

You are a clear cut case of TDS, where you are completely irrational due to your hatred of Trump and cannot accept that there is a difference between lying and being wrong.

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Turtledove wrote:

I'm sure forest management has room for improvement but it's really not a significant factor in the drought conditions with high force winds.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Trump says explicitly that "There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor"

This is False. the reasons for the Massive deadly and costly fire are as I mentioned.

"

the cause of the California fires is primarily that we're in the seventh year of a drought, there are very high winds, and many people have built homes in these forested areas

Arguably, the most important point. California catches on fire, as it has done since time immemorial. Recent weather may exacerbate this, but so too does human intervention—or the lack thereof.

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Turtledove wrote:

I thought building permits in California were handled at the local level rather than the state level but, I only have gotten a couple of building permits so perhaps I'm mistaken or outdated?

I'm sure forest management has room for improvement but it's really not a significant factor in the drought conditions with high force winds.

I was under the impression that the densely forested areas were largely owned by the state and federal governments. Development certainly does occur at a local level. How is it that developments were erected without the foresight to include the infrastructure necessary to keep dry foliage and trash to a minimum? Why do these governments collect so many taxes and issue permissions if our lives and wellbeing aren’t better off in their competent hands?

I’m certainly no expert on the matter; those are genuine questions I have. It seems a little hypocritical to me to always blame Trump, or climate change, or anything else not ourselves; as if it could only ever be one thing or the other. Regardless of political affiliation, if governments want to assume so much responsibility, then they had damn well better do a good job.

To be fair, I should have been clearer when I typed forest management, lower-case. I did not mean the organization as being discussed, but all organizations responsible for managing the forests, homes, and populations therein. Could they take better responsibility of the wildfires affecting communities? I don’t know, but “Trump is a liar” is not an answer.

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Khoranth wrote:

Trump blamed the people managing the forests, and acknowledged this was a federal funded program. SO he clearly was not blaming the California gov't, he is clearly blaming the actual people managing the forests.

If you want to make an argument that he is wrong in his assessment, go for it, but that is not lying.

Your opinion is that Trump is wrong, maybe your right, who knows? But clearly Trump has told no lie.

You are a clear cut case of TDS, where you are completely irrational due to your hatred of Trump and cannot accept that there is a difference between lying and being wrong.

Trump said that he would stop federal funding which could only mean he was blaming the California government.

Trump was flat out lying. Read some articles on the California wild fires. All the experts say that he was wrong. He repeated the lie more than once. He's the President of the USA. He can ask many people to find out what the truth is. He probably didn't ask or if he did he didn't listen to them because he shows a complete disregard for the truth.

Trump has a compete disregard for the truth because he is a pathological liar. Ted Cruz and Mark Rubio called him a pathological liar back in 2016 because he was a pathological liar back then. I'm calling him a pathological liar in 2018 because he is still a pathological liar in 2018.

Trump has no morals and has a completely selfish point of view. This is demonstrated by him starting up his fraud Trump University. Trump University was closed down by the state of New York for being a fraud and Trump had to pay back $25 million dollars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University

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Turtledove wrote:

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Khoranth wrote:

Trump blamed the people managing the forests, and acknowledged this was a federal funded program. SO he clearly was not blaming the California gov't, he is clearly blaming the actual people managing the forests.

If you want to make an argument that he is wrong in his assessment, go for it, but that is not lying.

Your opinion is that Trump is wrong, maybe your right, who knows? But clearly Trump has told no lie.

You are a clear cut case of TDS, where you are completely irrational due to your hatred of Trump and cannot accept that there is a difference between lying and being wrong.

Trump said that he would stop federal funding which could only mean he was blaming the California government.

Trump was flat out lying. Read some articles on the California wild fires. All the experts say that he was wrong. He repeated the lie more than once. He's the President of the USA. He can ask many people to find out what the truth is. He probably didn't ask or if he did he didn't listen to them because he shows a complete disregard for the truth.

Trump has a compete disregard for the truth because he is a pathological liar. Ted Cruz and Mark Rubio called him a pathological liar back in 2016 because he was a pathological liar back then. I'm calling him a pathological liar in 2018 because he is still a pathological liar in 2018.

Trump has no morals and has a completely selfish point of view. This is demonstrated by him starting up his fraud Trump University. Trump University was closed down by the state of New York for being a fraud and Trump had to pay back $25 million dollars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University

Trump literally called out the people managing the forests. You keep repeating the lie that he blamed the California government. Classic TDS, driving you to repeat a lie.

Also plenty of information has been given in this thread that demonstrates that management played a role in the forest fires, yet you continue to ignore that factual data and repeat a lie that management played no role in the forest fires. Again, typical TDS on display.

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