0.10.3c Patch Notes

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_Lokken wrote:

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We want there to be tension around the drops

Why? There is no social or game-play advantage to this. I am honestly astounded the loot issue has gone on as long as it has and that an actual correct solution has evaded you guys this long. I would love to hear the actual thought process and reasoning behind this.

There are far too many de-sync, and user interface issues with this game to have this kind of loot system. Everyone has had loot that they have clicked on 500 times and the game still has not triggered that they clicked on it.

The map system already has a fantastic way of forcing the players to chose wisely what they want to pick up and leave. This is all you need; A conflict driven 'click to pick up' system is simply juvenile and adds no value no matter how much trolls like to say it adds to the game.

I would suggest that the timer is removed on 'timed' loot and it remains 'greyed' out until the 'owning' player leaves the zone, or loots it and drops it. That way groups that actually work together can still see all the loot so no-one is left in the dark about a drop.

I also agree about a way to turn off timers for races and such (or just general parties where the participants aren't all complete twats about sniping loot).

_L

Yep, a very timid move from GGG. Haven't opened their mind to the subject in what, two years now?

And it's best exemplified by this recent comment from Brian on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ae33l/my_poe_experience/

A grown up man commenting on a 12 year old attributing his "unforgettable" experience of getting an Exalt, to the fact that he had a "pusle pounding thrill" for trying to get to it in time before other players do.

I don't know what's more pathetic, this guy's post, or Brian's response.

This is what this is designed for folks, to give you "pulse pounding thrills". o_O

And of course it's valid for other people so it's okay if you are terribly disappointed that you didn't get your item in time (misclicked and whatnot) because hey, someone else is gonna get their pulse pounding thrill!

In every day life a similar situation would be greatyl frowned upon, for example racing to the cashier with your cart full of goods when you see someone going for it at a slower pace. then you turn around and you brandish your forearm first clenched, and you go HUMPFFFF!! YEAHHHH! I beat you to it!

It's really the same. But hey GGG probably thinks "this is just a game", "why so serious?" ... indeed why? Right? Video games after all are made for 12 year olds, it's not a mature art form, and it's not meant to be played by people conscious about other's feelings...

Apparently we've got it wrong you see. It's the age old technician vs artist debate. At GGG it's just a technical implementation. You don't have to feel this or that way, feelings are unimportant you see, it's purely a misinterpretation on your end, if you feel bad about someone running to your loot.

You're the error. You're human. You should be a computer.

GGG, stop trying to "fix" the loot system. Just put options for the loot system, so the party leader can choose, and let people play THEIR WAY. Everybody imagines Wraeclast their own way, games are about imagination. Some imagine the loot FFA, some allocated. Removing the names from the drops was plain stupid, and others gave you the reasons before, in parties, friends used to tell people "X orb dropped for you, trade me for it" and such.

I like all of these changes except removing the player's name off the loot. I strictly play with my friends and whoever is assigned the loot gets the loot. Now playing together just seems like a mess as there are many items in which we have to make guesses about. At least provide an option for party leader in private parties...doesnt even have to be for public parties.

It was a nice addition but we still need improvements in the itemboxes and pathfinding to make it decent. If these two problems are fixed the loot system will be fine for me.
The itemboxes specially annoys the hell out of me. When I see something dropping with my name on it I have two options:

1. Click the item a single time, allowing me to instant pick the item, but making me prone to missclicks.

2. Click and hold the button on the item, which prevent missclicks, but by doing this there will be a delay before my char will finally pick the item and if someone else in the group also hold-clicked the item before me there's a high chance he will snatch the item.


Anyway, I still don't see why it's so important to push FFA loot down the throats of everyone like this game does. If all 6 persons in a party agree to separate loot by name why shouldn't they be allowed to do it? Everyone is free to create their own party in this game, so those that likes FFA can still play the way they want. The average amount of items per player will be the same in both cases so I really don't see the problem.

The new system for me is pretty unnecessary and harmful. I run in a prearranged high end map group, as the only frontline player in the group everyone relies on me to call out what drops and whos name it is as they are glass cannon rangers who have to offscreen attack to survive.

With the new system I can no longer tell anyone what loot goes to who, only that it's not mine. I find this change pointless and harmful as my group would always be telling eachother who's drops were who's. Now it will be chaos

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Chris wrote:

Version 0.10.3c

• Magic items are no longer allocated to specific players when they drop. The only items allocated are: Uniques, Rares, Gems, Currency and Maps.
• Increased the base duration of the item allocation timer from 1.6 seconds to 2.6 seconds. There is still a bonus allocation time for characters that are a distance away (travel time +10%).
• Allocated items no longer show a countdown timer or player name. They are still dimmed out while they are allocated to someone else.
• These changes were made to reduce the number of allocated items (for readability), increase their allocation duration (for fairness) and to reduce the visual chaos associated with the timer and allocation name appearing and disappearing (for readability). In our testing it is now much easier to see what items bosses drop and to click the items that are allocated to you.

These changes are the result of a lot of internal testing and discussion of player feedback. We will certainly make changes to the looting system in the future based on continued feedback. After you've tried out the new patch, we'd like to hear:

• Was it easier to read what items drop now that fewer are allocated and the size of the item hovers doesn't change?
• Does the increased allocation duration help enough in terms of being able to grab items in time assuming you react quickly?

I was about to donate 50$ USD today, until I read this update/patch note. Let me say a couple of things that will probably piss you off, but take it has hard criticism, please.

First of all, you guys developed a system in place where the looting system is the best looting system I have ever seen in any ARPG. I think it's clearly evident you guys have no idea as developers/staff on how fun it is to "ninja" an item from someone that has laughable reactions time. I've been lurking this forum for a while now and this is my time to post, this patch is simply unacceptable and a slap in the face. You should only increase the allocated timer time WHEN someone is using cyclone. I say this because of the "committed" factor when using the skill, you do not have enough time to break out of the skill and pick up your own item. (Even with your timer) It seems to me, that increasing the time while doing that skill to 2.6 is the only thing I would see as acceptable. You guys also have said in your dev "diary" videos that you are hardcore diablo 2 players as well, well this update on looting simply just proves that you're not anymore. Again, not trying to be rude, but this is insane. Plenty of my friends are quitting because it's not simply fun to farm any more. There is absolutely no incentive to farm when you guys completely removed the "fun" factor of farming. Like I said, I think it's very evident you have not played in a random pub party and did some ninja looting, otherwise you wouldn't accept such insane changes to your game. You obviously don't appreciate the hardcore ARPG fans that love the original looting system, but you say you're a hardcore diablo 2 fan? It's really a joke Chris and you guys should be ashamed of yourself, you have come all this way making a great game, but you're destroying it bit by bit by adhering to crybabies on the forum.

Secondly, I am not bashing this game at all, just trying to get my word across to you. I used to play POE, got to around lvl 80 in maps, was awesome to play loot2name in maps, ninja in random docks parties, but not any-more huh? Why should I come back to the game now? The new looting system is just another way of wording it "Don't go afk in parties, or you wont get your items". How many times do people go afk in parties, and the odd's of doing it when killing a pack? Thanks for all the fun times farming in random docks parties and having fun ninjaing.. was the funniest and probably the best time I ever had since diablo 2, now thrown away by an amazing indie company, what a shame.

It is what is it though, your game and you may do what you wish, but I really don't want to hear any dev say "We are hardcore diablo 2 players"... One would not simply ever accept changes like this to be accepted as final patch notes, either Chris has tons of work on his tail and trying to get stuff done and overlooked this issue, or he simply is just adhering to babies crying about their loot getting stolen, which I don't really know or really care anymore. Also a more intuitive approach would have a loot option when creating a party? Then have [lootTYPE] XX PTY NAME when showing the party listings? (Show a slider, ranging from 1.6 - 2.0) and have the party leader choose the speed of the timer? Then show that value where the [lootTYPE] variable is?

In any event, read my post with a grain of salt, I am not trying to insult you or your company, just trying to get it through your heads. (All the Diamond Supports have a bigger say than what we do right!?) You guys have an amazing game that is custom, unique, fun and pretty much went viral to gain exposure so I wish you guys the best of luck.

Edit: I also saved this post incase a mod that's high on his horse deletes it.

Path of Carebears, loot system is getting worse and worse. Less cutthroat and more catering.

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newman92 wrote:

I used to play POE, got to around lvl 80 in maps, was awesome to play loot2name in maps, ninja in random docks parties (...)

You seem to be of two minds...

Indeed a dual loot mode option would best cater to two very different mindsets. And as you said... to the same player, in different situations. I could see myself wanting to play either "allocated" or "free for all" mode.

However the middle ground, GGG trying to avoid adding the option, is not working.

The real question is just how much of an impact would it have on the game to add the option?

Some people said it's slippery rope. Towards what? And what's wrong with a few options when creating a party anyway? It's just a one time thing, you set options, then the game begins.

Using the 80/20 rule as a rough estimate for party leader vs party joiner, for the majority of players who just pick a game in the list, there is no impact on the experience, it's still very easy to pick a game and get playing. Just a couple seconds more looking for the party with the loot mode you prefer in the Noticeboard. If it's not there, then create a group.

What else? The argument that somehow it would divide the player base. How? It would only divide people between different parties with different loot mode, that's all. And players like me might actually hop in both loot modes now and then. Both of them being much more enjoyable because you know the rules from the get go. If I hop into a FFA party, it is guaranteed to feel better than it does now, because I know from the get go, everybody knows that you should pick the "allocated" parties if you have any claims to your items.

Then the argument that although people think it is what they want, it would somehow reduce their experience. This doesn't add up. The excitement is to get good loot, that's it. I won't deny, I'm sure some people, particularly younger people who are less socially aware, do get a thrill and love to snatch items off other people.. I can totally picture myself at 20 year old not giving a flying fuck about other people's slower reaction times, but just because that thrill is possible doesn't mean it should be supported by the game developers. At the very least, it should not be forced upon everyone. People of all ages and background play the game.

TLDR I think the "meta options" argument quoted from GGG is an excuse. The real reason we don't have loot options is because people at GGG including Brian have very stubborn views about what makes the game fun to play and they refuse to open their mind and actually give the "permanently allocated" loot a real test (I'm talking about loot allocation specifically, not the hiding of other people's loot).

I'm pretty amazed by players who defend with so much hatred and rancor the "ffa" loot system. No matter what you think, a game is supposed to be FUN and makes you feel like playing it. IMO, the actuel system only generates discouragement and frustration.
So, these changes are really welcomed but are still too timorous. Why not simply allow the players to choose the drop system they want as an option when creating a party so everybody can be happy with it??? Is it really so hard to implement???

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DeF46 wrote:

The real reason we don't have loot options is because people at GGG including Brian have very stubborn views about what makes the game fun to play and they refuse to open their mind and actually give the "permanently allocated" loot a real test

Bullseye.
This is the real deal.

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DeF46 wrote:

A grown up man commenting on a 12 year old attributing his "unforgettable" experience of getting an Exalt, to the fact that he had a "pulse pounding thrill" for trying to get to it in time before other players do.
I don't know what's more pathetic, this guy's post, or Brian's response.

Exactly my reaction after reading that.
I mean, how can one be more pathetic?

Obviously looting was and will be a real problem until options will be implemented.
With this patch ggg tried to solve the effect and not the cause.
Hence, the problem will (re)surface again.
And after some pain, trials and failures they will finally implement real and true loot-options including some form of instanced loot.