Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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Kasseopea wrote:

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bauermayers wrote:

300+ pages in, and you can probably count with one hand the comments that either like or don't care about it (my own first reaction included). Let's see if GGG will listen to feedback this time.

Be honest, how many times did you had to restart a sentence from bursting into laughter that contained "GGG will listen to feedback"?

Every time, and to be fair, a lot of feedback is actually whining about nerfs, like in the last balance manifesto, where a lot of people were saying summoner/poison bv/ aura stacker builds were dead just to be proven wrong after the league started. However, I think a lot of people may actually quit if they don't listen this time. Don't remember seeing such backlash before.

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rlauren2 wrote:

We get it. You don't like the idea of having an item editor in the game. That's understandable.

Alternate proposal - perhaps limit the augments and remove/adds to prevent them from rolling t1 mods. Similar to the crafting bench, it would allow casual players to improve their gear in meaningful ways while not guaranteeing that "perfect" items are possible via a guaranteed step-by-step algorithm.

limiting augments to not get t1 lines will make it just as useless..........

and people will stop playing because of it.

also, it's not an item editor.. it's literally the only thing that actually comes close to being able to call it crafting.. it's still full of randomness!
everything else is just gambling.. if i want to gamble, i'll go to a casino to waste my money and time put in to earn that money... and let's not forget, feel bad afterwards because unless you know how to count cards and hide the fact that you're able to do so and actually doing it... you will always lose money!

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Graas Hoppa wrote:

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rlauren2 wrote:

We get it. You don't like the idea of having an item editor in the game. That's understandable.

Alternate proposal - perhaps limit the augments and remove/adds to prevent them from rolling t1 mods. Similar to the crafting bench, it would allow casual players to improve their gear in meaningful ways while not guaranteeing that "perfect" items are possible via a guaranteed step-by-step algorithm.

limiting augments to not get t1 lines will make it just as useless..........

and people will stop playing because of it.

Unfortunately I agree with this. If you limit the Harvest to non-top tier mods or removing specific influence mods from Harvest, it will just become another Crafting Bench and players will just revert to buying gear or leave the game. The masses do not want to give up the candy now. Unless GGG counter-offer something else, people won't be happy.

Will this is my first league but honestly this make me not want to come back next league


why would i play again knowing that the next league prices gonna be 10X what they are now ?

i started playing this game because i heard that the dev listen to their community and care about feedback and after blizzard turned cooperate and one change take months to implement i thought maybe i should try path of exile because at least they care.

When I heard/saw

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Upcoming Changes in Path of Exile 3.14.0
So in 3.14.0, we're making some changes. The first three are direct nerfs to Harvest, and the second two are improvements. It's also worth noting that Harvest Atlas passives have been adjusted to accommodate these changes.

Previously, every seed in a patch granted an instance of that seed's craft. Now, only some of the seeds do (so you're getting far fewer of the crafts that were overwhelming people with their quantity). Higher-tier seeds are closer to the 1:1 ratio from before.
Some mods that had overly-deterministic behaviour have been removed. These include all annulment mods (other than the ones that remove a mod that isn't of a specific type before adding one of that type), and all type-specific divine mods.
Crafts that add mods of specific types (like Physical Modifiers, for example) to items can now only be applied to non-influenced items, except for the existing mod that applies an influenced mod to an influenced item.
The chance of encountering a portal to the Sacred Grove in a map has been increased by 60%.
The Heart of the Grove encounter is now a map fragment that sometimes drops from Tier 4 Harvest bosses, instead of randomly appearing in place of a normal Harvest grove. This allows you to trade the encounter if you don't feel up to it, and it means that finding The Heart of the Grove when you are in a map with difficult mods doesn't lead to an impossible encounter.

Overall, this is undoubtedly a heavy nerf to high-end Harvest Crafting, but we strongly believe that it is in Path of Exile's best interests going forward, and that there are still a lot of compelling Harvest crafts that make the grove worth running at any point in map progression.

I was concerned. I felt the way harvest was in 3.13 was pretty close to perfect. It had enough RNG to discourage farming it alone for mirror tier everything.

However, what it is farmed for enables players of just about every tier, to get that next set piece for any build they want. And ultimately, THAT is the core feature of PoE that draws the bulk of the players below the 100th%.

These changes won't affect the players who slam exalts and chaos. They grind enough to be above all that RNG and sit on top of all the exalts and mirrors.

*puts engineers hat on*
From a QoL perspective, I see what was aimed for with harvest crafting in its league and saw how it got out of control. I see how in 3.13 it is out of control as well, so I agree some balance is necessary.

However, I feel that the targeted divine is not balance breaking or RNG damaging. I know, combined with less variance in the seeds/crafts, the desired targeted divines would be more common, so bump them into the next tier up in rarity, diluting that pool and putting RNG back in command.

I am fine with same-same annul-exalt is a good removal. It wasn't popular anyways. Sure it was a safer way to annul, so I get the complaints. However, I like the idea of only having off-type annul. This would push more players into exalting or chaosing to get some off types for the sacrifice.

I am on the fence about the aug being limited on non-influenced. I mean at the end of the day, you can add mods and then influence it. I get why it is used heavily. Explody chests aren't the end all gear, so it is not like it is that OP to have it as it is. But again, it won't affect the top tiers, and it attainable with more RNG for the bulk of the playerbase (in this proposed way).

On a technical side, I really think the whole of harvest is sideways. Super clunky as a feature set. You have to find the encounter, pick the spawn for some crafts, live, then pick and choose what to use on the spot and what to save for later. I thought the original planting of seeds and growing encounters was fun. However, it was a chore. So I get this pre-filled encounters.

I think the crafts could have a seed cost and a lifeforce intensity. This way you could just make the encounters drop lifeforce seeds that sit in a bench with no craft limit on number of crafts, but have room for only one tier 4, for example. And when used, it has a recovery time. This way you don't have abuse.
*takes engineers hat off*

As far as any comments around mirror tier abuse in 3.13: I haven't seen any best items ever in the game. Either in my own runs/sessions, or on trade. I see some great items in streams: fully funded by the 1% top players and huge currency hordes.

I do like the subtle 'threat' that nerfing harvest will stop players from buying mtx because they will be bored and walk away from the RNG. Not saying that is my case. Just thinking it is funny to hear it online.

Sure GGG. Let's nerf or remove everything so we can become real "Exiles"

The two leagues I enjoyed most are Harvest and Ritual. It just made me keep coming back to play more. And now they're taking the most enjoyable part of the game out because of the elitist kind of thinking that the majority of PoE's playerbase don't even care about. Exalting and the feeling of ruining an item? Goodness, no. This just makes me sad and thinking of not playing anymore if these changes push through.

The introduction of Harvest without a cost breaks the game relative to all other mechanics which has RNG. There need to have some cost associated to it to be deterministic similar to how Fusings works on crafting bench. You either use RNG Fusing for 6link or you pay 1500 Fusing to get it done. Harvest do not have this cost and thus break the other mechanics.

If they were to introduce the same cost structure to deterministic crafting, it may complement the other mechanics. However I do see people will still be up in arms complaining that GGG is only catering to the rich again. So no real solution here.

Fuck me Irene, the trade manifesto hasn't even gotten to 100 pages after a couple years and this shit is pushing 400. And yet people will still call this an "overblown reaction."

You done fucked up.

K i`ve never complained before about any poe changes to the game but this time i have to at least try.

Standard player here.

I`ve played this game for many many years now....We need a some version of Harvest mechanics that are useful.

There are alot of good options people have already posted to make havest relevant so i wont go into great detail.

But honestly i want to make useful/higher tier items....myself....if it takes massive amounts of time/effort..thats FINE I will do that...but your guys notion of exalt slammin is craftin...is honestly beyond STUPID. Thats gambling.


WE NEED A CRAFTING SYSTEM, WE DONT NEED GAMBLING. if u need to make something more rare to come across....DO THAT--- nerf the drop rates and MAke crafts tradeable like u do with beasts via your trade site...poe's economy will naturally fix itself for whats good/useful/valuable

AGAIN WE NEED A RELAIBLE AND USEFUL AND TRADEABLE CRAFTING SYSTEM
AGAIN WE NEED A RELAIBLE AND USEFUL AND TRADEABLE CRAFTING SYSTEM
AGAIN WE NEED A RELAIBLE AND USEFUL AND TRADEABLE CRAFTING SYSTEM
AGAIN WE NEED A RELAIBLE AND USEFUL AND TRADEABLE CRAFTING SYSTEM
AGAIN WE NEED A RELAIBLE AND USEFUL AND TRADEABLE CRAFTING SYSTEM
AGAIN WE NEED A RELAIBLE AND USEFUL AND TRADEABLE CRAFTING SYSTEM
AGAIN WE NEED A RELAIBLE AND USEFUL AND TRADEABLE CRAFTING SYSTEM

WE DONT NEED BLIND EXALT SLAM ...check youtube i think it was cutedog he has a nice video about blind exalting he just posted....thats what u want us to do....

So ya i want have a semi-reliable way to make my own gear/builds and not just buy from the MONOPOLY that is mirror tier sellers, so we can have better build variety


If your goal is to have a better player base playin POE for the long term we need/want this FIXED.