Reset Skill Tree?

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Argyx wrote:

I think you overlooked the < level 31 part?

Again, MY POINT is, what threat is a player under level 31 having more respec options? Stop waving your wangs around and answer the question!

You overlooked my point that respec points will come in the form of playing and accumulation.

It was already mentioned that under level 31 takes 1-2 days. Not busting your chops but really 1-2 days is nothing to a gamer on a game he/she loves.

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Tarmalen wrote:

You overlooked my point that respec points will come in the form of playing and accumulation.

It was already mentioned that under level 31 takes 1-2 days. Not busting your chops but really 1-2 days is nothing to a gamer on a game he/she loves.

I think that you may have missed my point about not being a casual gamer. You are welcome to scroll back.

So, I'll ask again. Do you REALLY feel threatened by a level 30, having played 3 days (!) with a single respec?

I mean, seriously. That's going to crash your buzz?

Now, I don't question the points earlier. I am really beginning to wonder what you kids consider risky.

rofl you just lose the genuine sense of accomplishment.

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Argyx wrote:

Now, I don't question the points earlier. I am really beginning to wonder what you kids consider risky.

There's nothing inherently risky about it. It's just seems largely unnecessary from a design point of view, especially since GGG has already taken such issue into account with the refund quest points and Orbs of Regret. Also, I would just abuse the heck out of it by picking the best PvE passive skills for level 1-30 to power level and then switching them to the actual end-game build I will use at level 30. It reduces the sacrifice of having to endure leveling up to 60+ with perhaps a less than ideal PvE build, but an overall "better" end-game build. Likewise, it doesn't reward the players who planned and picked the less than ideal character build for PvE in the early levels, but a better overall end-game build as much.

It discourages thinking, good planning and analysis, and simply part of what's considered being skillful in the game.

But it's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

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Athoy wrote:

"

Argyx wrote:

Now, I don't question the points earlier. I am really beginning to wonder what you kids consider risky.

There's nothing inherently risky about it. It's just seems largely unnecessary from a design point of view, especially since GGG has already taken such issue into account with the refund quest points and Orbs of Regret. Also, I would just abuse the heck out of it by picking the best PvE passive skills for level 1-30 to power level and then switching them to the actual end-game build I will use at level 30. It reduces the sacrifice of having to endure leveling up to 60+ with perhaps a less than ideal PvE build, but an overall "better" end-game build. Likewise, it doesn't reward the players who planned and picked the less than ideal character build right from the beginning.

It discourages thinking, good planning and analysis, and simply part of what's considered being skillful in the game.

But it's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Hehe your a better talker than i am. You hit the nail right on the head with that one.

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Athoy wrote:

"

Argyx wrote:

Now, I don't question the points earlier. I am really beginning to wonder what you kids consider risky.

There's nothing inherently risky about it. It's just seems largely unnecessary from a design point of view, especially since GGG has already taken such issue into account with the refund quest points and Orbs of Regret. Also, I would just abuse the heck out of it by picking the best PvE passive skills for level 1-30 to power level and then switching them to the actual end-game build I will use at level 30. It reduces the sacrifice of having to endure leveling up to 60+ with perhaps a less than ideal PvE build, but an overall "better" end-game build. Likewise, it doesn't reward the players who planned and picked the less than ideal character build for PvE in the early levels, but a better overall end-game build as much.

It discourages thinking, good planning and analysis, and simply part of what's considered being skillful in the game.

But it's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Well said. Yet, how exactly are you exploiting a single respec up to level 31? It would basically save you a single reroll. In other words, by your logic, allowing rerolls opens up an exploit as well. Watch out folks!

They are going to end up offering full respecs in the company store which is why they aren't going to offer them in the game.

Its a good thing.

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Argyx wrote:

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Athoy wrote:

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Argyx wrote:

Now, I don't question the points earlier. I am really beginning to wonder what you kids consider risky.

There's nothing inherently risky about it. It's just seems largely unnecessary from a design point of view, especially since GGG has already taken such issue into account with the refund quest points and Orbs of Regret. Also, I would just abuse the heck out of it by picking the best PvE passive skills for level 1-30 to power level and then switching them to the actual end-game build I will use at level 30. It reduces the sacrifice of having to endure leveling up to 60+ with perhaps a less than ideal PvE build, but an overall "better" end-game build. Likewise, it doesn't reward the players who planned and picked the less than ideal character build for PvE in the early levels, but a better overall end-game build as much.

It discourages thinking, good planning and analysis, and simply part of what's considered being skillful in the game.

But it's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Well said. Yet, how exactly are you exploiting a single respec up to level 31? It would basically save you a single reroll. In other words, by your logic, allowing rerolls opens up an exploit as well. Watch out folks!

The main point I was trying to make is that allowing a full respec up to level 30 is largely unnecessary due to the current systems already in place (refund points from quests and Orbs of Regrets), a lot harder to screw up allocating points early on in the PST, and having a not too significant time commitment in rerolling a messed up character from level 1 back to level 30 (should take 2-3 days tops and less than 1 day if you're efficient).

The points you've made are certainly valid if these systems weren't already in place and would thus make the game a lot more unforgiving to new players (e.g. if this was D2), but these mechanics are already in place. We are also not giving new players the credit they deserve. I don't have statistic evidence to back this up, but I think most new players wouldn't mind rerolling if they messed up at level 30 knowing that it doesn't really take them that long or know that they just have to farm/trade up for a couple more Orbs of Regret. It's also part of the learning process before getting good at a game. Mistakes will be made, but at least these aren't permanent mistakes like in D2 (which many people were still happy to reroll, by the way) as refund points and Orbs of Regret can rectify a large majority of said mistakes.

All the other subpoints made don't matter as much. What I meant to convey in the last post though (apologies if it wasn't expressed clearly before) is that allowing full respecs up to level 30 has slight abuse potential (but again, not the most important issue--the issue is that a full respec up to level 30 is unnecessary). For example, if I made a character and focus primarily on allocating nothing but offensive nodes or paths that lead to primarily offensive nodes up to level 30, I would likely be more efficient at farming/leveling up till that level as the monsters are relatively easy at such low level. Once reaching 30, I can respec to a more balanced offensive/defensive PST and continue on. Conversely, if I can't respec, then I would have to start getting some defensive nodes somewhat early on or at the very least start choosing paths that would allow me to get defensive stats by the time I am level 30+. This will slow down the leveling efficiency, but it's a compromise one was make if one wants to be prepared to survive in the higher difficulties. Hope that clears things up.

Great discussion. I respect and understand your points of view.

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Mr_Bill wrote:

They are going to end up offering full respecs in the company store which is why they aren't going to offer them in the game.

Its a good thing.

Not completely sure whether GGG will actually offer such an option in the store because it's borderline Pay2Win. For example, if a player has a high level (70-80+) character and he/she noticed a certain strong build of the month/patch, he/she can just pay $$ to respec he/her whole character. It's basically using $$ to buy many, many Orbs of Regret. Don't know, it's up to GGG to decide in the end though *shrug*.

We already have a partial respec system.
A full one would eliminate the excitement of planing a new build.
And that would hurt the game in the long turn IMHO.

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Mr_Bill wrote:

They are going to end up offering full respecs in the company store which is why they aren't going to offer them in the game.

Its a good thing.

No they aren't, as that would be lame, and GGG is not lame.