1.1.0 Patch Notes - Sacrifice of the Vaal

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kiwihobo wrote:

My math is bad, help me out here. Lets say i'm doing 80,000 dmg to 20 mobs at once thats 600k damage with 8% life leech (which is now reduced by 60% to 4.8%) That's 28,000 ES leeched.

80000? what?, that's a fully shocked ultra discharge?.

Also you will be able to test your build after the patch, I think somewhere it was said by developers that full reset will be optional after the patch, so maybe you can see how hard it hits yourself in a reflect map and decide afterwards.

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cena6665 wrote:

You can never test the changes so it's really dumb in the end becouse you never know if the new build will work of if you have to get a ton of regrets, but your build is probably useless becouse Vaal nerf

Why do you play this game? Just curious. Based on the last tens of pages on this thread, you don't have any fun.

This is impossible to get away from. GGG knows 6.022 x 10^23 more about what they're doing than you ever will, and even more if your only purpose on the forums is to complain about things, which by this point seems obvious. They didn't just get together in a meeting somewhere and say, "Heh heh heh, let's cut VP's leech by 60%! That'll teach all of those idiots to play our game!" It was something that they considered over time, that they playtested extensively, and that they decided in the end was the best for their goals for the game.

You, on the other hand, go through the effort of making a post to say that a build that you're unaware of will probably be useless because of a nerf that you can't evaluate and would probably evaluate incorrectly if you could. That's bringing some knowledge!

I think I'll go ahead and side with GGG on this one.

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peilord wrote:

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Krayken wrote:

The only times i killed myself with IB due to reflections it was the explosion damage that did it. With IB the actual dps doesnt matter much when it comes to reflection. The gigantic pack of monsters exploding in a split second is the problem. When i get a map with ele reflect i just switch to ground slam. Problem though is even without the map mod some rare monsters gives a reflect aura and now that is hard to avoid without carefully watching the mods of every rare mobs (which really isnt my thing :D).

Wait, then if you need vaal pact to avoid aoe reflection, I think you will still survive after the nerf.

Let's asume you do 1k damage to 20 monsters.

18% reflected, out of 1000 damage would be 180, which would be further decreased by your fire resistance which I will asume sits at 75%. 180*0.25= 45.

If you previously had... let's say 8.8% life leech from the gem, after the nerf you would have 8.8*0.4 = 3.52%

So, you would be recovering 3.52% of 1000, so 35.2 hp.

Total damage you would take if you were to make 20 enemies explode would be of 10x20, so 200 damage.

I doubt that would kill you.

And if the hit would be of 10000 each, we'll be talking of 200 x 10. So you would be hurting yourself for 2000 damage which is pretty scary but playing CI wouldnt be so worrying.

Dual reflect would be a different story, same with - max, but you already said that prefer swapping to ground slam for ele reflect maps.

Solid. +1

To add to the scenario though, we could assume the player takes something in the neighborhood of 200-400 damage (after mitigation)from the mobs, right? So I think it becomes more worrying.

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Flesh_Eater wrote:

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SilentOppressor wrote:

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Flesh_Eater wrote:

Could you explain how VP got buffed. Why is it more viable for life builds?

Lets say I don't have VP and I hit ten monsters with an AoE. I will leech my 10% or w/e from the highest hit. If I have VP, I will get only 4% of the leech, but I will get it from every monster.

When all of those monsters are hitting you back with 15% reflect, suddenly Vaal Pact looks really awesome.

Ah. So Vaal Pact has been nerfed, but juxtaposed with the normal Leech nerf, it becomes desirable when dealing with 3 or 4+ monsters.

Still, kind of hilarious. 4% leech vs 15% reflect.

Still, kind of hilarious. 4% leech + Potions vs 15% reflect. [/quote][/quote]

Isn't that a negligible detail at high levels? (And you don't pick up VP until at least mid levels.

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Barandis wrote:

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cena6665 wrote:

You can never test the changes so it's really dumb in the end becouse you never know if the new build will work of if you have to get a ton of regrets, but your build is probably useless becouse Vaal nerf

Why do you play this game? Just curious. Based on the last tens of pages on this thread, you don't have any fun.

This is impossible to get away from. GGG knows 6.022 x 10^23 more about what they're doing than you ever will, and even more if your only purpose on the forums is to complain about things, which by this point seems obvious. They didn't just get together in a meeting somewhere and say, "Heh heh heh, let's cut VP's leech by 60%! That'll teach all of those idiots to play our game!" It was something that they considered over time, that they playtested extensively, and that they decided in the end was the best for their goals for the game.

You, on the other hand, go through the effort of making a post to say that a build that you're unaware of will probably be useless because of a nerf that you can't evaluate and would probably evaluate incorrectly if you could. That's bringing some knowledge!

I think I'll go ahead and side with GGG on this one.

Do as you wish, but considering I also make games for a living, I know far more about it then you assume and know far more then you. Good day..

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Kelgar7778 wrote:

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Galtrovan wrote:

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Kelgar7778 wrote:

So why did i bought

? So i can do a survilabity spec...Yea right.

I bet we gonna have a hotfix for VP very soon after the new patch to balance again the game.

And dont start with how many have that kind of weapons or gear cause GGG game supposed that is a hardcore game and not casual friendly.

That axe is a perfect example for why I don't play Standard and why Eternal orbs and Mirrors should be removed from the game. In my eyes that axe is not even legit. It's a dupe that should be deleted from the server. There should be one and only one owner. Period.

Cmon dont be jealous. I will let you play with for 2 days if you ar a good boy:P

LOL... I assure you, I'm not jealous. As I said, it's a dupe and I don't play Standard. The item is double-dead to me.

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peilord wrote:

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Flesh_Eater wrote:

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SilentOppressor wrote:

If you oneshot yourself on single reflect you doing too much DPS, thats it and thats why we have reflect and thats why they nerf VP. Easy.

By the way: All other nerfs of max resist had the same effect: less max ress, more DMG reflected. Pretty obvious that they dont want 100k DPS builds running arround, unkillable, and faceroll their content.

But I'm not a 100k dps glass cannon, I'm a 15k dps tank. With current leech I only get 1shot if its a huge mob on a -max, usually I'm smart enough to play around the reflect. But leech 2.0 means I'm taking tons of incoming damage with minimal incoming life. This has the potential to turn 30k dps into glass cannon, or it will bring about the death of AoE.

Which is probably the intent here.

Perfectly stated. The update invalidates AoE in so many situations.

About how leech will work after the patch. I assume (as we can't try things yet) that it will work similar to how critical strikes are accounted at the moment.

Like you cast 3 ice novas

First does 500 damage to 20 monsters (500x20=10000) you leech 8.8% of that (880)

Second does a critical hit and hits for 1000 to 15 monsters (1000x15=15000) you leech 8.8% of that (1320)

Third does 500 damage to 5 monsters (500x5=2500) you leech 8.8% of that (220)
Your maximun life is 1000 so you can only recover 200 hp per second.

Assuming you cast 1 nova each second, you would regenerate 200 out of 880 (680 remaining), then start leeching from the 1320 of the second hit, and when the third nova hit, ignores that leech ammount and keeps recovering life from the 1320 ammount until its exhausted, replaced by a higher leech or you reach max hp.

Sorry for the wall of text, but that's what I assume leech will look after the patch, instead of queuing all the leeched life until it caps or gets exhausted.

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God I hope you are correct.

Wow, these nerfs.

I don't understand why Saffel's was nerfed; it wasn't even very good to begin with. You're losing a ton of +resist, +health/mana, +armor/es, and a few other misc shield mods just for 5% max resist increase and spell block which was useless outside of some builds. Unless I'm missing something, then yeah, I can't see a reason for the small nerf.

The other items are fitting though. I may have not gotten to use those items, but considering the videos of some of the builds I've seen using them, I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did.

IIQ nerf I could've lived with, if it didn't affect uniques. I run with Goldwyrm and Perandus solely for its IIQ; now I guess I'll be removing Perandus and possibly even swapping out Goldwyrm; which is a bit sad.

Instead of lowering the IIQ bonuses outright I'd have rather it been changed to have diminishing returns. This would let people with only a few IIQ items have their fun while heavily reducing the effect of people who outright stack IIQ, which is what the nerf was for in the first place, right?

Kind of feels like it's going the route D3 is; MF is now worthless in D3 and the amount of items dropped was reduced by at least 900%; it's now not really fun to find items anymore and it seems like PoE is going to feel less fun as well, albeit nowhere near as bad.

Scion initial passive nerf doesn't make sense; it's your initial skills, they're supposed to be higher than normal nodes.

Life leech not queueing anymore is disappointing; what about potions? Are they going to stop queueing too? I like that it auto applies the highest value (very important for spike damage survival), but all that wasted leech..

I'd comment on more, but, well, a lot of other people are doing the same, and my food is basically cold now..

In all honesty, thought I side 100% with GGG, I can understand the complains some people are making.

My biggest concern is how obscure the information revealed in patch notes is. They really should start using examples and throughtly explaining most of the points that they change, add, remove, so the information gets more easily understandable.

Sometimes they post their changes like hieroglyphics

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Golden Chests have been removed from most areas due to Corrupted Secret Areas taking over some of their role.

GGG continuing to make absolutely no sense.