What does new life leech mean for you? Analysis and Discussion

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abbarnes wrote:

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Idioticus wrote:

Basically, large hits > small hits when it comes to Lifeleech after the patch.

It has nothing to do with large hits vs small hits. It's all about the DPS. Assuming same dps, large hits give you longer leech healing over time, but you have larger gaps between hits. Smaller hits give smaller duration heals, but with smaller gaps.

This is wrong.

Let's again assume you have 5% leech and 2,5k hp.

You need to do at least 50000 dps to get the 20% of your max health per second life leech.

If you hit 50000 damage as 1 blast every 1 seconds, you gain the max life leech.
If you hit 5*10000 damage as 1 shotgun blast every 1 seconds, you gain only 1/5 of your max life leech.

Both have the same dps, yet the other gets 5 times the life leech.

We can also do this with bursts.
If your blasts happen too fast, let's say 25000 damage every 0,25 seconds for 0,5 seconds, DPS is yet again 50000 overall, but 100000 in small moment (a single blast has 100k dps within the first 0,5 seconds as well, by the way).
You will gain your max life leech for only 0,75 seconds, because the life leech of each shot overlaps with the previous.
What's happening during this ordeal:
0: your first hit strikes
0-0,25: You are regening 500hp/s
0,25: your second hit strikes, overwriting your previous.
0,25-0,75: You are regening 500hp/s
0,75-1: no regen.

In total, you regenerated (500/s)*0,75s=375hp

Compared to a single 50k blast:
0: your hit strikes
0-1: You regen 500hp/s

In total, you regenerated (500/s)*1=500hp.

Essentially, unless your blasts happen at a steady stream and deal just the right amount of damage relative to your max health, you won't get the same leech as a single blast.

I can't take the time to respond to all the replies since I went to bed. However I would like to mention a few things:

1) With the exception of spell users (some of which are getting the shaft), there will be potential to have to min-max your life leech. Even really week hits can keep you sustaining a full 20% HP/s if you hit fast enough (think spectral throw where there are lots of stratified hits occurring).

2) Several casters will still be okay. Builds like Freeze pulse, fire ball, or anything that hits decently hard to a single target with some increase cast speed should still be fine with leech. The ones that get hit the hardest are specs like incinerate and flame totem with GMP.

3) Physical CI builds may still be alright. It may require building a lot of life leech but at least you aren't in the same boat as CI builds running shotgunning spells.

THANK YOU OP for explaining it properly. Theres been a ton of confusion over the new LL mechanic. My incinerator may not like it and I may have to drop blood rage now that I can't have queued leech healing the degen. But I think this was a good change in some respects.

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Wooser69 wrote:

THANK YOU OP for explaining it properly. Theres been a ton of confusion over the new LL mechanic. My incinerator may not like it and I may have to drop blood rage now that I can't have queued leech healing the degen. But I think this was a good change in some respects.

I still feel like GGG has something up their sleeve so incinerate and shotgunning skills don't get hit too hard. Perhaps we will see a new sneaky support gem (Life gain on spell damage, anyone?) Or perhaps they will allow all simultaneous hits to be added for the leech calculation (no queue, just one long heal).

Who knows, maybe they'll redo LGOH like they sort of tried to. Remember when it scaled to damage effectiveness, then that got reverted maybe 2 patches later? It got reverted of course because the real problem with LGOH scaling was that it wasn't effected by the less damage modifiers of multiple projectiles or multistrike.

I would be pretty interested to see how LGOH would function if it was set to apply to spells, but was effected by both damage effectiveness and generic damage modifiers, ie 'projectile damage', 'more spell damage', 'less melee damage', etc. With suitable base numbers adjusted if necessary.

This is very devastating I'm not too sure if I can even do some AoE bosses anymore such as jungle valley lol

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Jamezuh wrote:

I can't take the time to respond to all the replies since I went to bed. However I would like to mention a few things:

1) With the exception of spell users (some of which are getting the shaft), there will be potential to have to min-max your life leech. Even really week hits can keep you sustaining a full 20% HP/s if you hit fast enough (think spectral throw where there are lots of stratified hits occurring).

2) Several casters will still be okay. Builds like Freeze pulse, fire ball, or anything that hits decently hard to a single target with some increase cast speed should still be fine with leech. The ones that get hit the hardest are specs like incinerate and flame totem with GMP.

3) Physical CI builds may still be alright. It may require building a lot of life leech but at least you aren't in the same boat as CI builds running shotgunning spells.

With 1), it is not so much how often you hit as it is how your multiple hits are spread over time. As you say, ST may be OK because it will probably hit multiple mobs multiple times in succession pretty evenly throughout the attack delays. Something like Storm Call however...

With 2), it depends on your dps to life ratio - there could be no affect on your life leech if you have really high dps to life ratio (for example, with GMP shotgun this is when you get over 100% life per second leeched on your shotgun dps - about 50000 dps at 4500 life), or it could massive if you have normalish dps to life ratio (for example, with GMP shotgun this is when you have about 20% of your life leeched per second or less on your shotgun dps - about 10000 dps at 4500 life), or anywhere in between.

With 3), probably true.

good analysis

How is this going to affect ST CoC build - e.g.: ST -> CoC -> LMP -> EK -> LL ?

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Filousov wrote:

How is this going to affect ST CoC build - e.g.: ST -> CoC -> LMP -> EK -> LL ?

These builds may have to add more % leech (which isn't the end of the world because EK is physical damage). However, I feel as though with the high base damage of EK and how often you will be attacking your build may be okay.