Flicker Strike
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EDIT: As I figured, now I've more thoroughly explored this thread, I have repeated several people. Blast Monkey's feedback was amazing and deserves many +1s. That all said, I'm not changing a word of this, because it's still how I feel. I don't care about the balancing of the skill -- that's up to others. I care if the skill matches the description on the box, so to speak.
No skill has ever made me want to skip the slush pile of the forum and just PM the devs more than Flicker Strike. First, a few facts. I've NEVER used it. I can't speak to its overpoweredness but plenty of others can and do. Secondly, Chris has said in-game that the skill is very likely to get a cooldown, but one that can be mitigated (as I suspect most cooldowns will be, one way or another). Lastly, it was the description of Flicker Strike that made me want this game, because it definitely sounds like how I play Charan elsewhere. Let's examine that description. There was a flash, and in the blink of an eye, he suddenly appeared behind the first assailant, plunging his sword to the hilt in the exposed neck. Then he was beheading the second in one quick swipe. Then the third fell with a shriek, his bowels spilling onto the cobblestones. The fourth turned to run, and found himself facing the Duelist, who met his momentum with a stab through the heart. Spent, panting on the ground, the victor wiped his blade clean, and recorded four more kills with Flicker Strike. When I read that, before I could play the game, I am pretty sure I grinned, just a little, at the screen. Goodness yes. I will repeat: I haven't had the fortune of using this skill and I very much fear that I won't ever get the chance, not in its current form. Oh, I could trade for it -- heck, I probably have friends who'd throw one at me. I wanted to find/earn my own, and simply haven't. Working not with game balance then, but with the beautiful description, let me proceed with my suggestion to retain the faithfulness of the skill according to that description. What this skill needs is not a cooldown. I see absolutely no cooldown in that description, and I believe it's the quick, almost spontaneous target switching and despatching that defines this skill. So here's what I'd propose. If this makes it TOO weak, so be it. If not, also good. If it's still too strong, we can work from there. Just a proposal -- nothing more. Flicker Strike Retooled According To The Description: -- A restriction to smaller weapons. It's clearly meant to represent the almost superhuman agility and speed a duelist/fighter can achieve when they are wielding a relatively small, quick weapon. I cannot imagine that description working if the writer had said stipulated the Duelist was wielding a claymore or a poleaxe. (Flicker Strike can only be used with claws, daggers, one-handed maces, one-handed axes and one-handed swords. **or just one-handed weapons, for brevity**) -- The requirement of a target. The duelist in the description is clearly picking his targets. (This skill will fail if no target is chosen.) -- Reword the gem description. The term 'teleport' endows the skill with a magical element that much belies the description above. While the Duelist appears to 'teleport', he knows, and we know, that he's just moving very fast. The 'flash' seems to me one of his tricks -- maybe some powder, maybe something else. There is no need to make this skill 'magical'. -- Lastly, note that in the text description it is used only once against each target. This is essential an AoE effect staggered from one target to the next, very quickly, one hit only. Thus I'd propose that Flicker Strike can not be used on the same target more than once. How GGG would implement this is up to them -- maybe some sort of charge limit a la Viper Strike, where any strike above the 4th does nothing. (Flicker Strike cannot be used on the same target for x seconds.) Reduction of the IAS and damage increase is also an option, but there needs to be something reflecting how quickly the Duelist took the four assailants out. Maybe just increased crit chance per flicker strike -- forget charges, forget IAS. I think that a strike after a short-ranged jump like this is fast enough. Once you've closed that distance, it's not about how quickly you attack, but how effectively you make the one attack count before the others realise where you are. This is an accelerated version of a stealth kill, replacing stealth with surprise. There HAS to be risk and there HAS to be reward. The Risk is the jumping around and exposing yourself by getting right in there; the Reward is that moment of utter vulnerability your enemy experiences, a moment precisely long enough for one vital strike... It's a great skill concept and very much encourages play with smaller, quicker weapons in its mobility and facility. It shouldn't be the zip-around-the-battlefield that I've found Whirling Blades to be -- it's the paramount display of a Duelist's talent with his chosen weapon. The other classes can do it too, if they're similarly dedicated and are willing to use a tool outside their usual trade. GGG, PLEASE do not put a cooldown on this skill. Put it into time-out like AoF if you have to, but unless you guys have some sort of trick up your sleeve to retain the essence of the site description, please...no cooldown. (Or just change the site description I guess, but that's...a bit lame.) https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable. Huh. My mace dude is now an actual cultist of Chayula. That's kinda wild. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on May 21, 2012, 9:29:27 PM
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Why not give it a minimum range? Simple: You can't use Flicker Strike any closer than X meters.
This would keep it faithful to its flavour text/description, and do away with the spam. Also, it should be castable on a target only. Last edited by Falcord#4858 on May 22, 2012, 3:58:16 AM
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My first character is a shadow, now level 28. I get maybe 5-10 FPS, so i just set up buffs and flicker strike through everything till theres that one rare/boss that doesn't die in 1-2 hits, then I dual strike him down quickly. Flicker is way too strong, but please be careful in balancing it, as it's critical to a lot of builds. Don't overdo it.
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Spoiler
" I like this thinking/rationale a lot, even though I disagree with the basic premise. Try playing a flicker shadow. We need a cooldown on that. Personall, I feel like adding a small cooldown (literally like 1 sec or so), and slightly lowering it's damage and/or utility would be good. I don't like the idea of needing to click a target, but that's probably based on my lag-induced inability to click targets lolol. |
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I broke my own personal code of conduct with this one and did indeed ask a dev about it. There likely will be a cooldown but the mitigation of it makes sense according to the description. Nothing is set in stone, however.
I still think it should be impossible to use it twice on the same mob immediately, and that targeting an enemy is required for use. I finally dropped an FS gem earlier today and will play with it soon enough. I play fully zoomed-in, though, so we'll see if the jumpiness makes me sick or not. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.
Huh. My mace dude is now an actual cultist of Chayula. That's kinda wild. |
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So I think we can all agree that this skill isn't acting in the way people would like in all cases.
Here's my current proposed behaviour set: Flickerstrike without target: picks random target in range, as it does now. Flickerstrike with target, target is in range: flicker to the target. Flcikerstrike with target, target is out of range, shift not held: Walk until target is in range, then flciker to target. Flickerstrike with target, target is our of range, shift is held: Nothing - there's not really anything that it makes sense to do here. But override the fall-back-to-default behaviour for this case, so you don't walk up and do a default attack. Do people agree? disagree? any suggestions for ways this can be improved? @Charan: Preventing you using it on the same target twice in a row isn't really something we can do (without a lot of hacking at it at the very least). We could potentially add a minimum distance, but then what happens if you try to target someone within that distance? do you automatically walk away until they're at the right distance? I'm not particularly happy with any of the options there, so would rather not implement such a minimum. | |
" I agree, minimum distance is bad. I concede that idea; I was merely brainstorming based entirely on the prose description of the skill. What if the majority (not all, but most) of the skill's damage came in the form of a non-stacking very short duration DoT? Something like Puncture? I mentioned Viper Strike and how once it hits 4 stacks, there's no use in applying it until the stacks fall off. It occurred to me that puncture applies a relatively uncommon status effect, and that Flicker Strike might well be the perfect skill to see it inflicted more often. I'm still just brainstorming, mind you. I understand the rationale behind flicker strike working even if you don't target: the Duelist is perhaps moving even quicker than his mind. He's going on instinct and adrenaline. I'm still not sure if that makes it too spammable, but like I said, with the cool down being discussed, that probably won't be an issue anyway. One thing I didn't address and would probably be broken is the idea of the Duelist in the description being almost dead. Could 'low life' also be a means of bypassing the cooldown? Like I said, that might create some broken builds. Just working with that skill description yet again. Thanks for the reply, Mark. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.
Huh. My mace dude is now an actual cultist of Chayula. That's kinda wild. |
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Those changes sound good, Mark.
In my opinion, Flicker Strike could do with a simple, good old damage reduction. I think it should be used as what it is: A way to zoom between monsters and "dance" through combat fast. But the problem is that it hurts, and it hurts a lot, so it's used as a main damage skill. Its damage should be cut in half at least, so DPS is achieved by other means. That, plus the behaviour improvements, and I think we're set. Really, it's not a good indicator of design that when playing my Shadow I have to refrain from using FS, because it takes the fun away. Reminds me of the shield from Castlevania SOTN. Self-imposed restrictions for the sake of challenge aren't good =). |
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" Crissaegrim, shield rod+Alucard shield...to name but a few. The problem with damage reduction is it might run the risk of not being the quick-kill that the description conveys. This is why something has to be in play that turns it into a hard-hitter. But then we need to think of drawbacks. I can name plenty. Reduced defence, conditional cooldown (the current solution)...or another I'd sort of like (based on how traps work right now): limited usage before cooldown kicks in. I've noticed that a fire trap can be used three times but then the cooldown begins. You can use another fairly quickly afterwards or you can wait for the full cool down and unleash another three. Why not something like that for flicker strike? You can do four of them quickly but then have to wait a little while to do another, and then another...or you can let it fully recharge and go wild again say, 15-20 seconds later or whatever? Maybe that is what was meant by cooldown in the first place. I'm not sure. I just dislike the idea of Flicker Strike being reduced to one attack at a time with gaps between each and no other option. At least this way you'd be given the choice between 4 killer blows occasionally or 1 killer blow fairly regularly, or even 2 killer blows somewhere in between that. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable.
Huh. My mace dude is now an actual cultist of Chayula. That's kinda wild. |
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Flicker only needs two changes to make it balanced:
1) Make it require a target. Attempting to activate the skill without a valid target would have no effect. 2) Make it dodgeable. A slight (1/4 ~ 1/2 second) delay before teleport, with some sort of visible indicator to show where the flicker user is going to appear, would work well (and the same mechanic would also do a good job of fixing similar issues with cold snap). These changes would prevent scenarios where players take unavoidable damage vs flicker monsters (or players, when pvp balance time comes round), and would also prevent the current mindless playstyle where the flicker player just holds down right click while drinking potions. IGN: KoTao
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