Mechanical Questions Thread

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Syhler187 wrote:

Will we ever get a conferm on the champion master metal and impale vs totems if works or not.

And how it work,

Maby just clarify what work and what dont, so we have a chamge to build arround it or not.

Thx

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ekaye wrote:

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rolfdafiftynine wrote:

@ekaye:

Great, thank you so much! Still I am not sure if it was clear what I tried to ask.

I am not converting physical to elemental by Nebuloch but adding elemental damage on top based on the physical damage I am causing (see Nebuloch item text which I linked before).
Since I am using a lot of +increased physical damage the effect of +increased elemental damage would be way better for me, right? Even if I do not have a lot of elemental penetration. If I am using 2 Nebuloch on 2*35% added elemental damage + Hatred of Level 20 = 30% added frost damage I would be dealing 100% elemental damage on top of my physical damage.

"X damage gained as Y" is a form of damage conversion, except it doesn't remove damage X as "X damage converted to Y" would. Other than that, it works the same as damage conversion. As to the modifiers, increased Physical damage actually has a greater effect than increased Elemental damage, since it scales both the original Physical damage and the Physical-to-Elemental damage; increased Elemental damage only scales the latter. If you converted all your Physical damage to Elemental, both modifiers would be equally effective.

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청난슬 wrote:

Please excuse me for not being smooth by asking questions with the translator.
Options in Elemental Army Support include:
I want to know if this option reduces the enemy's elemental resistance or my Minion's resistance.
"Minions from Supported Skills Exposure on Hit, applying -10% to the Elemental Resistance meeting high-most Damage type taken by Enemy"

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rolfdafiftynine wrote:

OK thank you for clarifying again. I think I got it pretty much.
I had an error in my calculation inside my head, you're totally right! Melee Physical is better in my case than elemental damage.

Still I am unsure of the value of elemental penetration in my case. Enemies got armor, so my physical damage gets reduce by a number and from the reduced number of physical damage the elemental damage is calculated and reduced by resistances again, right?

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ekaye wrote:

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rolfdafiftynine wrote:

OK thank you for clarifying again. I think I got it pretty much.
I had an error in my calculation inside my head, you're totally right! Melee Physical is better in my case than elemental damage.

Still I am unsure of the value of elemental penetration in my case. Enemies got armor, so my physical damage gets reduce by a number and from the reduced number of physical damage the elemental damage is calculated and reduced by resistances again, right?

No, converted damage is taken as its final damage type. Physical damage converted to fire is affected by fire resistance, but not physical damage reduction.

If you have the option, I recommend converting your physical damage to fire in addition to the damage you gained as fire. This lets you scale all your damage with effects such as Flammability and Covered in Ash, and lets you safely run physical reflect maps.

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rolfdafiftynine wrote:

I mean since I am adding elemental damage based on my physical damage it takes the resulting damage after reduction of armor and converts this number to fire. I played a build converting all damage to fire before and wanted to take advantage of Nebuloch's "added physical to fire" this time. So if I convert 100% to fire, this bonus is lost along with all the other +% increased melee physical talents.

But of course you're right with "reflected physical" maps. This is mainly the reason why I consider going slayer, which has an ascendancy to not be affected of this. But I like easy playstyles (shame on me) and getting endurance charges on stun immune enemies is still a hell often because of "unwavering" enemies... Plus I do not know how good my stunning will be with 2 Nebulochs.

Talking about Magmatic Strikes: Using Ground Slam with Nebulochs won't help here, right? Ground slam does no fire damage itself but gets it from Nebuloch wich means "increased fire damage with attack skills" does nothing, right?

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ekaye wrote:

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rolfdafiftynine wrote:

I mean since I am adding elemental damage based on my physical damage it takes the resulting damage after reduction of armor and converts this number to fire. I played a build converting all damage to fire before and wanted to take advantage of Nebuloch's "added physical to fire" this time. So if I convert 100% to fire, this bonus is lost along with all the other +% increased melee physical talents.

But of course you're right with "reflected physical" maps. This is mainly the reason why I consider going slayer, which has an ascendancy to not be affected of this. But I like easy playstyles (shame on me) and getting endurance charges on stun immune enemies is still a hell often because of "unwavering" enemies... Plus I do not know how good my stunning will be with 2 Nebulochs.

Talking about Magmatic Strikes: Using Ground Slam with Nebulochs won't help here, right? Ground slam does no fire damage itself but gets it from Nebuloch wich means "increased fire damage with attack skills" does nothing, right?

"I mean since I am adding elemental damage based on my physical damage it takes the resulting damage after reduction of armor and converts this number to fire." That's not the correct order. Modifiers to damage dealt (including physical gained as fire) are applied, and after that is done, only then do modifiers to damage taken apply. The monster doesn't know whether the fire damage it takes was always fire or was converted from physical. In either case, it will apply its fire resistance, but not its physical damage reduction.

"I played a build converting all damage to fire before and wanted to take advantage of Nebuloch's "added physical to fire" this time. So if I convert 100% to fire, this bonus is lost along with all the other +% increased melee physical talents." Converting damage does not make it unavailable for "damage gained as". You can convert 100% of physical damage (but no more) to fire, but that physical damage is still available to be gained as fire or other types. And converted damage is modified according to its original type as well as the final type, so "increased melee physical damage" also applies to melee fire damage that was converted from physical.

Magmatic Strikes would work just fine with your build. It doesn't care whether an attack skill "natively" deals elemental damage, only whether it ends up dealing that damage. Elemental Damage with Attacks Support works the same way and is a valid option.

If you haven't already created your character, you might want to consider going Scion and taking the Elementalist and Slayer notables. This would make you immune to all reflected damage, and with a source of life and mana leech you can run all map mods. The Warlord's Mark curse provides both and also endurance charges on kill, which would help with the Unwavering maps you're having trouble with. Elementalist also provides extra effect for Herald of Ash, damage penetration, and powerful Shocks if you can get even a tiny amount of flat added lightning damage on your gear. If you can get full fire conversion, Chieftain or Champion could be good alternatives to Slayer.

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rolfdafiftynine wrote:

I played molten strike and +%melee physical changed close to nothing in my DPS back then when I played it. That's why I thought it works this way.

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ekaye wrote:

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rolfdafiftynine wrote:

I played molten strike and +%melee physical changed close to nothing in my DPS back then when I played it. That's why I thought it works this way.

That's because most of Molten Strike's damage comes from its projectiles, which do Projectile damage, not Melee damage. The same applies to Frost Blades' projectiles, and any other melee skill that produces projectiles if there are any. Ground Slam doesn't have projectiles, it just does Melee damage, so it scales 100% with Melee damage modifiers.