[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

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mika2salo wrote:

Normally minion life support is taken to make sure that Specs stay alive in boss fights even when they are not max tier. However with Soul Weaver, Necromancer doesn't really need the support that much.

You can already swam Golems to helmet and Specs to armor, but Golems scale easier with levels of gem. Especially if you happen to have +1 corrupted Sotl, I would not swap them. With Tabula rasa or normal Sotl, you can check with PoB which setup gives more total DPS from the Specs.

Oh yes, I think I mostly thought that having the flame golems in a 7-link helm of Conc Effect + Minion Damage + Minion Life instead of having them in a Skin of the Loyal. It likely wouldn't be as good as a corrupted +1 Skin of the Loyal but it might be far more easily attainable in league for players not rolling in currency. I'm sure SotL will pull ahead once you start talking about lvl 4 empowers and 21/20 flame golems but again, not everybody ever gets to that point of gear. It does potentially then open up the chest slot as well to some other options.

Hopefully the ES changes to items mentioned in the Dev Manifesto aren't too severe. Since the Skin of the Loyal requires having high ES elsewhere on your gear I guess this will hurt the build a modest amount in terms of survivability. Again, more for players who aren't able to afford the top-end bits. Seems like MoM is also getting "adjusted" so using that as an alternative early on may even be pretty bad now too.

At least if the ES spell caster meta is getting pretty drastically hit in this patch I now have some hope that Rathpith won't be ridiculously expensive!!

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mika2salo wrote:

Golemancer gear prices have been lowering quite fast. I hope I can make some nice finds next week when I plan to gear for higher tier maps. I think you can get good EHP and resistances even with MF if you dont go too wild with quantity.

Yep, Golems are not the fastest for MF but have their own play-style in everything they do. Relaxing and click-free is very nice especially in longer sessions. I got pretty nice Q / R in standard with my Golemancer when I used legacy quantity gem in Golems and let TC Specs deal most of the damage. I think I had over 100% Q / 150 R with legacy rings, amulet and some legacy MF gear.

Hey Mika,

I remembered you asked about how I was getting on with trying that MF golemancer. Anyway, league ended so spent the little currency I had on a chest for the WiP character I had and then cannibalized some older MF gear from other characters. All stuff bought cheaply in legacy league mostly.



I mostly run low tier maps so it's just for running some map layouts I like at the end of a league or when I get bored of the temp league.

A bit more info below for you Mika:



Good luck in the new league!!

"

Oh yes, I think I mostly thought that having the flame golems in a 7-link helm of Conc Effect + Minion Damage + Minion Life instead of having them in a Skin of the Loyal. It likely wouldn't be as good as a corrupted +1 Skin of the Loyal but it might be far more easily attainable in league for players not rolling in currency. I'm sure SotL will pull ahead once you start talking about lvl 4 empowers and 21/20 flame golems but again, not everybody ever gets to that point of gear. It does potentially then open up the chest slot as well to some other options.

Hopefully the ES changes to items mentioned in the Dev Manifesto aren't too severe. Since the Skin of the Loyal requires having high ES elsewhere on your gear I guess this will hurt the build a modest amount in terms of survivability. Again, more for players who aren't able to afford the top-end bits. Seems like MoM is also getting "adjusted" so using that as an alternative early on may even be pretty bad now too.

At least if the ES spell caster meta is getting pretty drastically hit in this patch I now have some hope that Rathpith won't be ridiculously expensive!!

Hello :)

I will be doing some Helmet <-> Armor swap testing when we get patch notes out. Leveling varies per person, so in some cases it makes lot of sense and others less.

For example if you can get Anima stone + Harmonies early on the league but don't have currency for Sotl. Then it makes sense to put Main skill in 6-7 link helmet.

But if you can get jewels and Sotl at about same time, it becomes trickier. It depends on gems level, access to high tier Specters, support in helmet that you can get, etc. Best way to check is using PoB imports and check the damage. Golems in armor and Specs in helmet is pretty much safety line for good placement.

GGG has given access to pretty high tier ES crafting per item, so I'm not that worried about ES nerf. If Sotl gets to about flat 200 ES range, Vis Mortis luckily works nearly as good. +1 Spec balances 20% damage loss from Sotl +1 level nicely. +1 corrupt Vis is about same as Sotl ATM, but with +1 Spec added.

I'm also hoping that Rathpith will be cheap to test out the new Necromantic Aegis :P

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Hey Mika,

I remembered you asked about how I was getting on with trying that MF golemancer. Anyway, league ended so spent the little currency I had on a chest for the WiP character I had and then cannibalized some older MF gear from other characters. All stuff bought cheaply in legacy league mostly.

Spoiler


I mostly run low tier maps so it's just for running some map layouts I like at the end of a league or when I get bored of the temp league.

A bit more info below for you Mika:

Spoiler


Good luck in the new league!!

Hi :)

That's very nice gear! With about 100% quantity, there is significant change on currency drops from map already. But your right that upgrading from your point will cost a lot.

It's like you put X currency to Q / R and start running. After a while you want to upgrade but X = X2, so you need to grind for double cost. After you get significant upgrade you grind again and next upgrade is X4 but increase is much smaller. It's kinda endless cycle.

Thanks! Good luck for the league as well o/

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So far info about league has been pretty good.

Necromancer
- Necromancer Aegis included in the Ascendancy now
- Rathpith potentially very powerful DPS boost for the build
- Access to Wicked Ward (ES regen won't stop from damage)

Occultist
- Wicked Ward removed from Ascendancy but added to skill-tree as own node (close to path, so Necromantic Aegis node will most likely go there. Some other goodies coming to old Wicked Ward most likely so buff?)
- Necromantic Aegis removed (some DPS lost, but shield will give tons of EHP [HP + ES] now)

Elementalist
- Access to Wicked Ward (ES regen won't stop from damage)
- Necromantic Aegis removed (some DPS lost, but shield will give tons of EHP [HP + ES] now)
- Boss shocking was removed (Build doesn't use it, so doesn't affect it)

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UPDATE

GGG changed Flame Golems projectiles, so they don't cause FPS drops anymore!

How excited are you for Rathpith testing this league Mika? It looks absolutely amazing for flame golems/TVs.

Here's to hoping Necro-Aegis gets moved to the upper left

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Utopian238 wrote:

How excited are you for Rathpith testing this league Mika? It looks absolutely amazing for flame golems/TVs.

Here's to hoping Necro-Aegis gets moved to the upper left

Hello :)

I'm pretty excited for the Rathpith as it seems to be amazing DPS boost. GGG also fixed standard stash tabs after 2 years, so I can continue pushing delve deeper. Golems projectiles don't lag anymore, so GGG pretty much fulfilled my wishes.

If Rathpith works, I might even try Flame Golems + Solar Guards as they can also crit compared to Tukohamas. 4x Flame Golems + 4x SGs should be pretty devastating damage with Rathpith.

I guess Nerco Aegis could replace Puppet Master if it's not added as it's own new node. Puppet is pretty much placeholder atm for something useful. It could also be gated behind Mistress of Sacrifice, which would make nice chain as it would first give 50% block chance from Bone Offering and then extra block from Necro Aegis?

How do you feel about multi-strike changes with Ice Golems?

Slowing the attack speed bonus will lower DPS somewhat, but I don't think as much as it might seem at first. Ice Golems can 1-shot normal mobs even in high tier maps, so slower attack wont slow clear speed that much.

They are, however 100% dependent on multi-strike for their functionality. If they don't have multi-strike, they won't chain multiple cartwheels and their horrible AI will start casting projectiles and whatnot between cartwheels. I guess GGG won't be touching multi-strikes functionality when linked to Ice Golems, so they should still be safe.

Removing NA from non-Necro variants will slow both their movement and attack speed, so Haste should be excellent aura to support them with Generosity.

However for Necro variant I think I will be replacing Haste with Temporal Chains + Enhance + Blasphemy. The setup is just too good to pass and without it enemy / whole pack can leap attack offscreen and kill instantly. Aspect if Spider works well with Temp Chains as bosses have reduction to TC, but aspect works better against them.

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mika2salo wrote:

How do you feel about multi-strike changes with Ice Golems?

Slowing the attack speed bonus will lower DPS somewhat, but I don't think as much as it might seem at first. Ice Golems can 1-shot normal mobs even in high tier maps, so slower attack wont slow clear speed that much.

They are, however 100% dependent on multi-strike for their functionality. If they don't have multi-strike, they won't chain multiple cartwheels and their horrible AI will start casting projectiles and whatnot between cartwheels. I guess GGG won't be touching multi-strikes functionality when linked to Ice Golems, so they should still be safe.

Removing NA from non-Necro variants will slow both their movement and attack speed, so Haste should be excellent aura to support them with Generosity.

However for Necro variant I think I will be replacing Haste with Temporal Chains + Enhance + Blasphemy. The setup is just too good to pass and without it enemy / whole pack can leap attack offscreen and kill instantly. Aspect if Spider works well with Temp Chains as bosses have reduction to TC, but aspect works better against them.

I think we'll have to wait and see what happens with multistrike support. The extra damage on successive hits is good and hopefully a fair tradeoff for the lost attack speed multipliers, as long as they can't cancel out of the animation to cast an icicle should be okay. If they start casting breaking out of the attack animation for cyclone however, then they are completely dead as a build. The icicle just does nothing and every moment they spend doing it is completely worthless.


If NA does move to Necro Elementalists will be playing the Bow version of the build with Maloney's which is still fine, just much harder to hit necessary movement speed nodes. The plus side is you get 3 more jewels to work with.

If anything i'm more concerned about the shock nerf. We are exactly the type of build that this nerf was aimed at. Getting a free 20% more multiplier and proliferation from a storm brand gem and a point in beacon of ruin with no other investment into spell/elemental damage.

I expect the elementalist versions will be better off going paragon of calamity now for the extra defense.



I'll be playing the Necro variant this league to give it a feel, will be interesting to see what kind of hybrid tree can be made with access to wicked ward on the main tree. With the new +flat es -%es and extra es wheel on the upper left changes they mentioned skin of the loyal gets a slight buff.

It may even be worth going ES as elementalists now too and taking zealot's oath to apply stone aura buffs to your ES, we'll just have to see what the tree looks like.

I am also going to give fire golems a try at some point this league to see how it feels with the projectile changes. Multiple league buffs in a row they seem to be in a much better place than they were in 3.5. I agree solar guards+flame golems looks really strong. They both benefit from projectile weakness as well but i'm not sure it's worth losing the defensive curse.

Well, Witch start ES nodes just got destroyed! :(

Rather than giving increased ES they now give 10 flat ES.

I guess that you will just path through the minion nodes now or just come out the right hand side. However that is effectively a loss of 38% increased ES.

However, other ES nodes seem to be unchanged.

The new ES nodes by Witch / Templar seem lackluster being 5% ES + 8% mana for us. Notable is 10% / 10%. Not sure we would pick them up unless having the extra mana made casting golems viable through stacked aura's.

Anyway, it's definitely a bit of a blow to our overall survive-ability but can probably be largely fixed by dropping a jewel socket to grab more ES nodes if required.

Looking forward to seeing your thoughts Mika & others.

[Edit: Necro aegis not really moved at all. Just now sits in the same location but pathed off to the right rather than to the left.]

Hej,

playing another golemancer, but is this still viable due to the changes?

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I think we'll have to wait and see what happens with multistrike support. The extra damage on successive hits is good and hopefully a fair tradeoff for the lost attack speed multipliers, as long as they can't cancel out of the animation to cast an icicle should be okay. If they start casting breaking out of the attack animation for cyclone however, then they are completely dead as a build. The icicle just does nothing and every moment they spend doing it is completely worthless.


If NA does move to Necro Elementalists will be playing the Bow version of the build with Maloney's which is still fine, just much harder to hit necessary movement speed nodes. The plus side is you get 3 more jewels to work with.

If anything i'm more concerned about the shock nerf. We are exactly the type of build that this nerf was aimed at. Getting a free 20% more multiplier and proliferation from a storm brand gem and a point in beacon of ruin with no other investment into spell/elemental damage.

I expect the elementalist versions will be better off going paragon of calamity now for the extra defense.

I'll be playing the Necro variant this league to give it a feel, will be interesting to see what kind of hybrid tree can be made with access to wicked ward on the main tree. With the new +flat es -%es and extra es wheel on the upper left changes they mentioned skin of the loyal gets a slight buff.

It may even be worth going ES as elementalists now too and taking zealot's oath to apply stone aura buffs to your ES, we'll just have to see what the tree looks like.

I am also going to give fire golems a try at some point this league to see how it feels with the projectile changes. Multiple league buffs in a row they seem to be in a much better place than they were in 3.5. I agree solar guards+flame golems looks really strong. They both benefit from projectile weakness as well but i'm not sure it's worth losing the defensive curse.

Hello :)

Seems like GGG didn't change Multistrikes core functionality, which means that Ice Golems should be safe as they should repeat cartwheel.

GGG leaving Necro Aegis to basically where it was in pretty surprising. However I'm glad for it as it's one of best nodes in the game and giving access to it for other Ascendancies diverses build selection ^^

Elementalist's shock still gives 15% more damage, which is not bad at all. Loss of proliferation seems hard, though. Defensive nodes are also decent choise.

Wicker Ward seems interesting to try out, but takes 3x nodes to access. With Watchers eye's faster ES recharge start, it could be very powerful node.

I will be tinkering with new tree when PoB will upgrade to see where we can get more ES easily. Other chance is to go for more life and get other benefits that way (Ele resistances from cruel preparation).

Zealots Oath, Stone Golem, Wicker Ward and Watchers eye could work together well to make ES regen build. Some of my guildmates have created pretty powerful ES tanks with huge ES regen per sec.

Flame Golems feel pretty smooth at the moment. New projectiles are smaller and more round than old ones. They are also easier to see separately, which creates illusion that they are shooting faster.

Both Flame and Ice Golems look very strong for 3.7 and I'm happy there was not any major nerfs to them.

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Well, Witch start ES nodes just got destroyed! :(

Rather than giving increased ES they now give 10 flat ES.

I guess that you will just path through the minion nodes now or just come out the right hand side. However that is effectively a loss of 38% increased ES.

However, other ES nodes seem to be unchanged.

The new ES nodes by Witch / Templar seem lackluster being 5% ES + 8% mana for us. Notable is 10% / 10%. Not sure we would pick them up unless having the extra mana made casting golems viable through stacked aura's.

Anyway, it's definitely a bit of a blow to our overall survive-ability but can probably be largely fixed by dropping a jewel socket to grab more ES nodes if required.

Looking forward to seeing your thoughts Mika & others.

[Edit: Necro aegis not really moved at all. Just now sits in the same location but pathed off to the right rather than to the left.]

Hey :)

Yep, witch ES seems pretty wrecked at first glance. When I simulated the changes with Pob, if dropping the ES nodes, we lose 6900 ES > 6400 ES = 500 ES. We can replace them by :

Taking old nodes => 260 ES
Taking Heart & Soul => 220 EHP (HP + ES)

If any other item like Skin of the Loyal is buffed even slightly, the nerf is not looking that huge.

Witch / Templar nodes really look like lackluster.

I will be doing final number crunching when PoB is out, and will compensate for the ES loss if needed.

Overall Necro variant and Elementalist looks pretty unchanged, if not counting the Flame Golems projectile change as buff.

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Hej,

playing another golemancer, but is this still viable due to the changes?

Hi :)

Yep, Necromancer variant and Elementalist are good to go for 3.7. There's slight drop to ES, but its less than 5% from total ES and can still be replaced with item changes that we don't know about yet.

Occultist however took pretty big hits. It lost ES regen from 30% -> 10% and 150 flat ES. Wicker Ward has to be taken from skill tree now, which costs 3x points extra.

I will try to check if I can take Vile Bastion -> Profane Bloom -> Void Beacon -> Withering Presence for +60% chaos res and free amulet slot for something other than Presence of Chayula. If it makes no sense, it remains to be seen how good Occultist is anymore.

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UPDATE

https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/bwzm8s/necromantic_aegis_rthpith/eq1whja/

Rathpith was confirmed to not work with minion life but rather with players life total.

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https://tinyurl.com/yyc42sxq = Online tree, not PoB

Here's initial 3.7.0 skill tree for default Necro using shield for blocking. It's not PoB as it has not yet upgraded, but shows that tree remains similar to current one. Witch ES nodes may change depending on what EHP values can be reached when PoB comes out.

A bit gutted about the Rathpith wording change. That sorta kills my hype for trying to go with really DPS focused golems for this league :(

I mean, it was going to be broken for flame golems so probably good in the long term. They may have had to nerf flame golems if it was kept in the game.

Although a bit of a pity as I just bought a helm with minion damage / minion life / conc effect in Std ready to try it out. Oh well, guess I will see if I can sell it again now! Hopefully some build will find it useful!