[3.10] LL Archmage Storm Brand MoM Hierophant (RETIRED)

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Aniki_Leads_people wrote:

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elmasone wrote:

Seems like this build is getting some big upgrades in 3.10. I didn't even realize that Second Wind is going to be so good for us but it is.

Your POB pastebin crashes Openarl's fork when I import, do you know what's up with that?

Couple of questions -

Why do you have Pain Attunement allocated? (In your "final build" link).

Did you consider Archmage Support in the 6L? With 5k mana, it should give 388-515 added lightning, which is more than Added Lightning.

How hard did you look at a bigger mana theme?

Like an additional mana theme could be:

Ivory Tower + low life package (Pain Attunment, disc + zealotry + blood magic).
Healthy Mind next to Cruel Prep
Prodigal Perfect + Mystic Bulwark

With a mana theme I wanted to take Sanctuary of Thought but I think it might have anti-synergy with Archmage Support and Arcane Cloak, as it has that 50% less mana cost. I don't know if that affects the values that Archmage and Arcane Cloak use, but the way it's worded it probably does.

This is probably terrible but this is what I theorycrafted today (and I just stole your power charge theme)

https://pastebin.com/RuR2dcJ8

Obviously can't PoB with Archmage, Arcane Cloak or Second Wind but those should be in.

I think Archmage provides way more damage. According to the gem description, the BASE mana cost will be 6% unreserved mana. So final mana cost will be 6%*1.4*1.3*1.4*1.3 (lightning penetration, concentrated effect, arcane surge, controlled destruction for instance) = 19.8% unreserved mana. With a 5k mana pool, Archmage will provide 1264 to 1391 added lighting damage, which is ridiculous.

Mana Hierophant will be the new META I think.

storm brand has "Effectiveness of Added Damage: 40%" so *0.4 at the end, still broken as i can see it

I have been stalking Indigon builds to get gear ideas - here are some

Cloak of Defiance for 10% more MOM, and flat mana and mana regen
Kalisa's Grace for 2% base critical strike chance all the time
or Voidbringer because 40-80% increased mana cost is a buff for Archmage and Arcane Cloak
Skyforth because it's a cheap stun protection (but..."no life gen" sucks)

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elmasone wrote:

I have been stalking Indigon builds to get gear ideas - here are some

Cloak of Defiance for 10% more MOM, and flat mana and mana regen
Kalisa's Grace for 2% base critical strike chance all the time
or Voidbringer because 40-80% increased mana cost is a buff for Archmage and Arcane Cloak
Skyforth because it's a cheap stun protection (but..."no life gen" sucks)

I would rather go Elemental Overlord and CI, then go all into mana. I think with some investment (grand spectrum, transcendent spirit, healthy mind, and atziri's foible), it is easy to get 10k mana. Use pledge of hands to get an extra 150% mana cost modifier and more damage. Then archmage and indigon will just override any other damage modifiers.

You can check my thought here: https://pastebin.com/C7FCD02W

Grand Spectrums are changed in 3.10, give crit chance instead of mana.

The rest of your idea has promise but it's quite a bit harder to hit 10k mana now - close to impossible in fact.

Edit: Dropping crit and going CI actually solves a lot of problems and frees up points for mana.

I think your version is really good. Very clean and focused with balanced ES and Mana with great mana regen and high EHP.

One thing which I am not sure about is whether Archmage boosts repeats from Spell Echo. Does anyone know?

Ok.. I've never done a Hiero, never done a league start with a bunch of new gems, and enjoy Storm Brand play ... so definitely down for this.

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Is second wind not support instant skill like brand recall?

You won't get the 2nd instant cast but get the cooldown recovery.

Did some play around with archmage, pls check the front page. Lmk what you guys think.

For archmage, is there a reason you can't go CI? It seems like since we just want a ton of mana to pump damage, it makes sense to go CI and get Sanctuary of thought. We should not have to worry about mana sustain as we can contiunally brand recall and just use mana flask. The added damage from archmage is way to high to ignore and seems very easy to scale. If you are concerned about the 50% less mana cost part on Sanctuary of thought, the build could utilize fevered mind and/or Apeps to crank storm brands mana cost (and damage)

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Is second wind not support instant skill like brand recall?

You won't get the 2nd instant cast but get the cooldown recovery.

Did some play around with archmage, pls check the front page. Lmk what you guys think.

Lets just run the numbers

The PoB you linked has 5545 mana.

0.06 * 1.4 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.4 * 1.1 * 0.5 * 5545 ~= 606
I swapped Lightning Pen in and Added Lightning out(you'll see why later).
The Archmage gem has 0.5% increased mana cost per point of quality giving 10% at 20 quality.
606 * 1.27 ~= 770
This means that Archmage adds 770 to 770 lightning damage to spells on top of the base amount on the gem.

So then I craft a unique jewel with these two lines and call it Archmage
(keeping them separated makes it easier to edit)
adds 7 to 134 lightning damage to spells
adds 770 to 770 lightning damage to spells

PoB takes care of the Storm Brand damage effectiveness and any other modifiers I might miss. In this case it shows Archmage to be worth 112.7% more damage, which means it's the highest damage support by far. It also makes added lightning damage (awakened or not) MUCH worse just because of how much flat damage it has. This is the reasoning behind swapping in the penetration which further helps Archmage by having a larger mana multiplier.

Additionally this means that the fevered mind jewel is worth about 25.7% more damage as well, since it helps bring the cost back up after SoT.

Here is the updated PoB
https://pastebin.com/SthXLLWm

@fatfat:

Yes this is starting to look sexier to me!

However I think you're undervaluing Archmage. By your own math, even with Sanctuary of Thought, it adds 638. That is far more damage than Awakened Added Lightning Damage (which you are still socketing!). Awakened Added LD only adds 29-543 which avgs to 286 damage and +1 lvl of storm brand.

+1 Storm Brand adds (411 - 369) = 42 flat damage. To add 42 flat to the spell Due to damage effectivene scaling, from other sources you need to add 42/.4 = 105. So +1 SB is worth about another 105 flat after accounting for damage scaling.

So in total Awakened Added gives 286 + 105 = 391.

So by your own math, it seems like Archmage is about twice as good as Awakend Added even when running Sanctuary of Thought. This fits with@squidyj's math that it's about 112.7% more damage, that's ballpark about two Awakened Addeds.

Also I don't think your current version has fully exhausted the ways to drive up the spend to make Archmage even better.

Edit: Squidy pointed out that we can drive the cost up as much as we want with Fevered Minds. True, we can but I think we can get that cost up very high with better payoffs for doing so. See below.

One guy further up the page pointed out that Pledge of Hands is like made for this build. It gives +100% mana and the Greater Spell Echo support adds another 1.5 multi to the mana cost, *but* you get to cast your spell 3x for the price of 1.

Also, Indigon lets you easily drive up the spend as high as you want, even when running Sanctum of Thought, and gives you extra rewards you for doing so.

Finally, if you are going to keep the crit theme, you can probably easily reach 100% effective crit chance with Kalisa's Grace and free up some itemization or skill points for other things. Such as getting rid of Void Batteries and running the aforementioned Pledge of Hands?

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For archmage, is there a reason you can't go CI? It seems like since we just want a ton of mana to pump damage, it makes sense to go CI and get Sanctuary of thought. We should not have to worry about mana sustain as we can contiunally brand recall and just use mana flask. The added damage from archmage is way to high to ignore and seems very easy to scale. If you are concerned about the 50% less mana cost part on Sanctuary of thought, the build could utilize fevered mind and/or Apeps to crank storm brands mana cost (and damage)

You can go CI, LL just gives you free damage + 2 more auras. I'm not so convinced about the mana sustain, that's the only thing I'm concerned about. If you can spam brands + brand recall and can sustain mana through mana flasks while mapping and bossing, that's fine. Then archmage is great.

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0.06 * 1.4 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.4 * 1.1 * 0.5 * 5545 ~= 606

It's 0.4 isn't it? not 0.5. Storm brand has 40% dmg effectiveness. I didn't take the 10% increased mana cost on archmage, and the inherent added dmg into account, mb. By my calculations I get 644 added net lighting damage from archmage, everything included, which does give around 114% more damage. That's still doesn't solve mana sustain though, which takes 1.2k per cast.

It's worth exploring but I'm not convinced that 40% more damage (than woke added lightning) is worth screwing your defenses. Cause this build at this point has 8k ES, 5K mana with 40% mom, leech, with 6 mil shaper dps. That's more than enough dps. The mana regen problem will make you likely to get one shot from chaos damage at low mana. You could use a shavs instead of Ivory tower, but it cuts 1.3k es out.

Idk why in you have an additional 349 - 349 dmg on your fevered mind though. I updated the pob.