[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

High +Mana and +ES in the Abyss Jewels for the belt make a big difference, especially as they get +75%. Resistances become more of a pain to sort though.

On PoB those 2 gems contribute 707 ES

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Yarik85 wrote:

I've got a question for you.
How critical is Deathmark support to the whole show?
Can I replace deathmark in the spider setup with minion damage, and deathmark in the HoP support with something else for damage? And if yes, what could I put into the HoP setup?

Reason being, I don't like to press a whole lot of buttons, and deathmark seems like it will work at half strength if I don't cast it.

Or is there a specific reason to run deathmark? Do i want to cast it on a boss, and the minions will stick to him and will not run back to me as easily while I'm dodging mechanics?
How do they act differently compared to just attacking the boss from carrion golem's frenzy?

Deathmark is huge.

Damage-wise, it's stronger than basically all other damage gems (apart from Withering Touch, which we also use).

Yes, it's true that we lose around 20% DPS on non-marked targets. But remember that we mark basically all targets that take more than one second to kill; is it really a big loss to "only" have 3.2M DPS on white mobs instead of 4M? (Those are approximate numbers) It's up to you to decide, but in my opinion, it definitely isn't. I still clear juiced T16 maps, lvl 83 safehouses, pure chayulas like it's nothing, and just pop Deathmark when there's a mob that doesn't die instantly - it's instant, and costs no mana.

Plus, don't forget the other benefit of Deathmark: being able to focus anyone you want. "Allies cannot die" mobs, bosses among other random mobs, Vexilium Immortalis versus Drox, making sure all your minions focus the same Atziri... Once you're used to being able to command your minions around, you can't live without it anymore.

Also, you can make sure your minions focus the boss while you kill your worms next to it, and that's golden.

I guess the bottom line is this isn't a one button build, mainly because I don't like one button builds. I don't like triggering Molten Shell with CwDT, I don't like putting my warcry on left click, etc. I like having stuff to do, controlling my character, I get bored with one button builds or auto bombers. But in the end, it's your choice.

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kuskin wrote:

1. the new gem for spiders you've added in PoB (Awakened Melee Physical Damage) - is it use instead "damage on full life" gem in boss setup?

2. by using "Stalwart Commander" i loose a shit tons of ES and it's really painfull to me at this point (i didn't get how you reach over 7k ES, maybe Wather's Eye magic, but i still cant afford the "eye"). So, does it mean i have to continue to use "will shaper" cluster jewel?

3. you can enchant your rings with "Fertile Catalyst" (which gives life and mana modifiers) and it affords you to NOT pick all the 3 nodes right below CI

1. Melee Phys, et lvl 20 20%, grants exactly the same damage as Damage on full life lvl 20 20%, so those are interchangeable. However, Melee Phys has an awakened version, so once you can, you should try to get it, yes, but it's really an end-game upgrade and by no means necessary.

2. If you lose too much ES, you can get Stalwart Commander on an ES base jewel, that should help. Otherwise, you can always stay with Will Shaper, or even Energy from Naught if it's cheaper. But keep in mind that armour is more relevant to effective survivability than raw ES, since it determines by how much you refill your ES on block.

Also, like Dobarn said, you can keep a 5L HoP and use an ES ring in one slot. Keep in mind that sentinels deal between 1/2 and 2/3 of your DPS only, so playing is 5L is not as weak as it sounds (last league I killed an A8 Sirus with a 5L).

3. I know, and I did use Fertile Catalysts, as stated in the guide. But a. those nodes also grant decent ES and armour, and b. grabbing them allows us to drop Enlighten to use an Increased Duration instead on the offering, the warcry, and molten shell, which is a godsend in boss fights, and in the end, even for mapping.

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Dobarn wrote:

With maim on cyclone, I assume that one will overwrite the maim from the spiders (due to Vulnerability)? I know they won't stack, but if it doesn't overwrite does that lower the usefullness of it on the cyclone link?

Yes, our maim overrides our spiders' and sentinels' maim, so no worries. :)

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kuskin wrote:

exactly same shit ... still dunno how author get 7k+ ES with Stalwart Commander

Import my PoB or my character and check the differences carefully. Note that improving the rolls on your items, especially the Aegis and the Memory Vault, is a huge upgrade once you can afford it.

As said before, you can also get Stalwart Commander on an ES base if you need more ES.

But keep in mind that armour is more useful for effective survivability than raw ES, and I'm 100% sure you can kill A8 Sirus easily with 6k ES.

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Dobarn wrote:

High +Mana and +ES in the Abyss Jewels for the belt make a big difference, especially as they get +75%. Resistances become more of a pain to sort though.

On PoB those 2 gems contribute 707 ES

Indeed, high mana and ES on abyss jewels is huge.

Thank you for helping me answering questions, Dobarn, the thread is more active than I had anticipated when I created it, and your help is a godsend. <3

Defensively it's OK. I suspect it'll become excellent once I have the mana mods up and running so I can add Discipline to the mix. It's still surviving well enough without though.

Offensively, it's got problems. The spiders are only just managing most end bosses, and once I reached Sirus I found they were dying before they could do any significant damage - it's no wonder three Writhing Jars are recommended. HoA does so little damage I barely notice if it's not active.

It looks like the HoP variant has some extra sources of damage that might help, so maybe I should shelve HoA if I continue with this build.

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Defensively it's OK. I suspect it'll become excellent once I have the mana mods up and running so I can add Discipline to the mix. It's still surviving well enough without though.

Offensively, it's got problems. The spiders are only just managing most end bosses, and once I reached Sirus I found they were dying before they could do any significant damage - it's no wonder three Writhing Jars are recommended. HoA does so little damage I barely notice if it's not active.

It looks like the HoP variant has some extra sources of damage that might help, so maybe I should shelve HoA if I continue with this build.

Yes, HoP is better, which is why I retired the HoA version. You should try to switch whenever you can, and make sure you follow the guide the best you can with your budget. :)

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Import my PoB or my character and check the differences carefully. Note that improving the rolls on your items, especially the Aegis and the Memory Vault, is a huge upgrade once you can afford it.

That was exactly what i did, i turn off your watcher's eye and start checking. Some of my gears have same ES, some have even more, on 1 jewel i didn't have +10 mana but it not so huge, right? However, i have 500 ES less then you. That makes me crazy because i didn't see difference, but the difference 100% exists!!! Guys, please what am i missing? xD


account : kuskin
character : Exile_of_Greed
PoB : https://pastebin.com/J6AducCw

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Thank you for helping me answering questions, Dobarn, the thread is more active than I had anticipated when I created it, and your help is a godsend. <3

that coz you've created an awesome build, thank you for it, great job!!))

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kuskin wrote:

That was exactly what i did, i turn off your watcher's eye and start checking. Some of my gears have same ES, some have even more, on 1 jewel i didn't have +10 mana but it not so huge, right? However, i have 500 ES less then you. That makes me crazy because i didn't see difference, but the difference 100% exists!!! Guys, please what am i missing? xD


account : kuskin
character : Exile_of_Greed
PoB : https://pastebin.com/J6AducCw

I checked, and here are the few differences that I noticed:

* You don't have Influence yet, which is going to add some decent amount of ES (and armour), and allow you to drop Enlighten. Check the guide for more info, I updated it recently, so you might have missed it.

* You're using Energised Armour, which is a great jewel to get early armour and immunity to corrupted blood, but reduces ES. You could get a random ES jewel with corrupted blood immunity, or, if you manage to find one of the other jewels with corrupted blood immunity, a watcher's eye with the mods listed in the guide.

* If you manage to find it, there's a harvest craft that makes the quality of your body armour give mana instead of defenses. It's 10 more flat mana at 20% quality, and 14 at 28%, so it's not massive, but it's noticeable.

* If you can afford it, you could try to divine your Astramentis. It might not seem like much, but 5 to all attributes can do quite a difference on this build.

* On another note, your Vaal Discipline is level 19; when it gets to 20, you should notice an improvement too.

Hope that can help. :)


(And thank you for the compliment! I spent a lot of time on this build and this guide, and will probably keep doing so in the future, so it's always heartwarming to get positive feedback :) )

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Hope that can help. :)

Yeah, thanks it helps a lot, because of your vision of things is much deeper than mine))

Fought eradicator - got eradicated lol. took me 4 portals.
Anyhow any thing you recommend i do to my build?
Will add a darkness enthroned when i can get the correct res jewels and have a cheap Watcher's eye that gives armour and ES recharge but i feel that is giving me very little over Energised Armour, that jewel also has corrupted blood on it.
Thanks.

Hi,
1st of all, THANKS!!! My favourite build EVER!!!

I dont understand why my Pob (https://pastebin.com/SEy7aKDH) says i have more than 100k armor, but ingame i can't reach 70k.

I would like to min-max this build (next step ench on helm).
Can you, please, help me?

Thanks a lot, finally i'm sure i can go for lvl100, i'm immortal.

Here my items, if you can help me suggesting upgrades.