[3.13] RECKONING (Counterattack) Gladiator Build. Let them kill themselves! UBER ~2 min! BOSSES AFK

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Reactor52 wrote:

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LilDaddy wrote:

how about annointments or just not worth it?

fun build tho especially in pvp when ppl kill themself :P

If you are using Rigwalds ammy, you can't annoint...it comes already corrupted...one of the "downsides" (tradeoffs) of going Facebreaker/Rigwalds

Speaking of which, Mr. Angry if you have a moment, a couple of questions. I have played this build, or a close variant, a few times (back when Surrenders seemed to drop out of the sky, or, at least were only 50c or such, not the current 3+ EX):

1) why do we use Rigwalds if we take no claw nodes. I know the answer is right in front of me. When I have used the Face/Rigwalds combo in the past as a pure Cycloner I seem to recall taking those nodes.
2) If you can't afford the current Surrender price, does this become more of a Cycloner build than Retaliation? Do you just 4L a Reckoning gem in something? If you do that, do you go all-in on retaliation and also run Riposte and Vengeance?

TIA

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Reactor52 wrote:

1) why do we use Rigwalds if we take no claw nodes. I know the answer is right in front of me. When I have used the Face/Rigwalds combo in the past as a pure Cycloner I seem to recall taking those nodes.
2) If you can't afford the current Surrender price, does this become more of a Cycloner build than Retaliation? Do you just 4L a Reckoning gem in something? If you do that, do you go all-in on retaliation and also run Riposte and Vengeance?

TIA

Rigwalds is just so you can get crit while unarmed.

I just got surrender but was doing t15-t16 np with a 4L reckoning. I was swapping between Magna Eclipsis and Lioneye's Remorse depending on whether I wanted more dps or more life in certain boss fights while I leveled. Eventually I just went with Lioneye's all the time when my damage was high enough that I was just flying through maps without the +2 to my auras.

I have a really high facebreakers so it mostly feels like a cyclone build anyways even without The Surrender. Either shield I mentioned will just wipe out rares your cyclone doesn't one shot and acts like a damage buff against bosses. That's what I came back to say, that if everything else is great The Surrender is just a win more item against everything but end game bosses. That's where the extra damage gets seriously beneficial. Even without the high end gems and a slightly modified tree I'm around 1.5M Shaper dps with The Surrender and around 820K with the Magna Eclipsis but Cyclone is at 1.2M Shaper dps.

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hogscraper wrote:

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Reactor52 wrote:

1) why do we use Rigwalds if we take no claw nodes. I know the answer is right in front of me. When I have used the Face/Rigwalds combo in the past as a pure Cycloner I seem to recall taking those nodes.
2) If you can't afford the current Surrender price, does this become more of a Cycloner build than Retaliation? Do you just 4L a Reckoning gem in something? If you do that, do you go all-in on retaliation and also run Riposte and Vengeance?

TIA

Rigwalds is just so you can get crit while unarmed.

I just got surrender but was doing t15-t16 np with a 4L reckoning. I was swapping between Magna Eclipsis and Lioneye's Remorse depending on whether I wanted more dps or more life in certain boss fights while I leveled. Eventually I just went with Lioneye's all the time when my damage was high enough that I was just flying through maps without the +2 to my auras.

I have a really high facebreakers so it mostly feels like a cyclone build anyways even without The Surrender. Either shield I mentioned will just wipe out rares your cyclone doesn't one shot and acts like a damage buff against bosses. That's what I came back to say, that if everything else is great The Surrender is just a win more item against everything but end game bosses. That's where the extra damage gets seriously beneficial. Even without the high end gems and a slightly modified tree I'm around 1.5M Shaper dps with The Surrender and around 820K with the Magna Eclipsis but Cyclone is at 1.2M Shaper dps.

Thanks for the reply/feedback. So, I guess that getting that 7% unarmed crit w/ Rigwalds is better than a decent ammy with an anoint? Haven't played around with PoB to see. It just clicked for me that this is a higher crit build. Sounds like you have some good gear, especially now with Surrender.

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Reactor52 wrote:

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hogscraper wrote:

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Reactor52 wrote:

1) why do we use Rigwalds if we take no claw nodes. I know the answer is right in front of me. When I have used the Face/Rigwalds combo in the past as a pure Cycloner I seem to recall taking those nodes.
2) If you can't afford the current Surrender price, does this become more of a Cycloner build than Retaliation? Do you just 4L a Reckoning gem in something? If you do that, do you go all-in on retaliation and also run Riposte and Vengeance?

TIA

Rigwalds is just so you can get crit while unarmed.

I just got surrender but was doing t15-t16 np with a 4L reckoning. I was swapping between Magna Eclipsis and Lioneye's Remorse depending on whether I wanted more dps or more life in certain boss fights while I leveled. Eventually I just went with Lioneye's all the time when my damage was high enough that I was just flying through maps without the +2 to my auras.

I have a really high facebreakers so it mostly feels like a cyclone build anyways even without The Surrender. Either shield I mentioned will just wipe out rares your cyclone doesn't one shot and acts like a damage buff against bosses. That's what I came back to say, that if everything else is great The Surrender is just a win more item against everything but end game bosses. That's where the extra damage gets seriously beneficial. Even without the high end gems and a slightly modified tree I'm around 1.5M Shaper dps with The Surrender and around 820K with the Magna Eclipsis but Cyclone is at 1.2M Shaper dps.

Thanks for the reply/feedback. So, I guess that getting that 7% unarmed crit w/ Rigwalds is better than a decent ammy with an anoint? Haven't played around with PoB to see. It just clicked for me that this is a higher crit build. Sounds like you have some good gear, especially now with Surrender.

With any other amulet you will have no crit for unarmed

Rigwalds is just so you can get crit while unarmed.

I just got surrender but was doing t15-t16 np with a 4L reckoning. I was swapping between Magna Eclipsis and Lioneye's Remorse depending on whether I wanted more dps or more life in certain boss fights while I leveled. Eventually I just went with Lioneye's all the time when my damage was high enough that I was just flying through maps without the +2 to my auras.

I have a really high facebreakers so it mostly feels like a cyclone build anyways even without The Surrender. Either shield I mentioned will just wipe out rares your cyclone doesn't one shot and acts like a damage buff against bosses. That's what I came back to say, that if everything else is great The Surrender is just a win more item against everything but end game bosses. That's where the extra damage gets seriously beneficial. Even without the high end gems and a slightly modified tree I'm around 1.5M Shaper dps with The Surrender and around 820K with the Magna Eclipsis but Cyclone is at 1.2M Shaper dps. [/quote]

Thanks for the reply/feedback. So, I guess that getting that 7% unarmed crit w/ Rigwalds is better than a decent ammy with an anoint? Haven't played around with PoB to see. It just clicked for me that this is a higher crit build. Sounds like you have some good gear, especially now with Surrender.[/quote]
With any other amulet you will have no crit for unarmed[/quote][/spoiler]

Thanks Mr. Angry...think I get it now that I realized that the 7% on the Rigwalds is BASE and it then scales with all of the increased from the tree and other sources...without Rigwalds we would be down in the 20's or something for crit chance. And, this applies to both the Face/Unarmed as well as the Surrender/Reckoning, correct? As I said, I've played this as well as a Face/Bronns, also a more pure "retaliation" build (Reckoning w/ and w/o Surrender and Riposte and Vengeance) and guess I never fully understood some of the dynamics.

TIA, again

Is anyone using Cluster jewels with this build? If so, what are we looking for on them? This dropped for me and looks pretty good?

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Reactor52 wrote:

Rigwalds is just so you can get crit while unarmed.

I just got surrender but was doing t15-t16 np with a 4L reckoning. I was swapping between Magna Eclipsis and Lioneye's Remorse depending on whether I wanted more dps or more life in certain boss fights while I leveled. Eventually I just went with Lioneye's all the time when my damage was high enough that I was just flying through maps without the +2 to my auras.

I have a really high facebreakers so it mostly feels like a cyclone build anyways even without The Surrender. Either shield I mentioned will just wipe out rares your cyclone doesn't one shot and acts like a damage buff against bosses. That's what I came back to say, that if everything else is great The Surrender is just a win more item against everything but end game bosses. That's where the extra damage gets seriously beneficial. Even without the high end gems and a slightly modified tree I'm around 1.5M Shaper dps with The Surrender and around 820K with the Magna Eclipsis but Cyclone is at 1.2M Shaper dps.

Thanks for the reply/feedback. So, I guess that getting that 7% unarmed crit w/ Rigwalds is better than a decent ammy with an anoint? Haven't played around with PoB to see. It just clicked for me that this is a higher crit build. Sounds like you have some good gear, especially now with Surrender.[/quote]
With any other amulet you will have no crit for unarmed[/quote][/spoiler]

Thanks Mr. Angry...think I get it now that I realized that the 7% on the Rigwalds is BASE and it then scales with all of the increased from the tree and other sources...without Rigwalds we would be down in the 20's or something for crit chance. And, this applies to both the Face/Unarmed as well as the Surrender/Reckoning, correct? As I said, I've played this as well as a Face/Bronns, also a more pure "retaliation" build (Reckoning w/ and w/o Surrender and Riposte and Vengeance) and guess I never fully understood some of the dynamics.

TIA, again
[/quote]
Yeah unarmed by default has 0 crit chance

man this build is fun so far. I was wondering if there are any cdr break points I need so watch out for? I want to get an abyssus with 30% reckoning and thought about getting cdr on belt and boots, too. Does that make sense?

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diesdasdinge wrote:

man this build is fun so far. I was wondering if there are any cdr break points I need so watch out for? I want to get an abyssus with 30% reckoning and thought about getting cdr on belt and boots, too. Does that make sense?

The more the better. But it would be quite a quest to get decent boots with that

Do we still need HoP? It doesn't give us flat phys anymore (3.11 change), maybe we can get something more useful? And what about 2 steel rings, wouldn't it give us more dps than Mark of the Elder?