why PoE is dying

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Orbaal wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

If GGG, as you indicate, don't hope to bring casuals back for 4.0, or some point in the future, then this is a financial catastrophe for them.

I never said nor implied that.

I think D4 will be financially successful but contentwise a terrible game with little to no longevity, which is why I think even casuals will be done with the game within weeks or months at most.


I think casuals will have to make a decision between either being bored while playing D4 or being overwhelmed while playing PoE.
Whichever one is less annoying to the individual player will win the day.

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xPiranha wrote:

what is scum?

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Phrazz wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Surely, for discussion sake, casual / average players leaving PoE to another game (no matter what game that is), is directly relevant? While D4 is obviously going have the most impact of anything in PoE's history, it's just a byproduct of the situation PoE has created in their development strategy in terms of player experience.

Or what do you mean it's not part of what we are discussing? Perhaps I've missed something along the way?

I leave every game I play. Often. I love both SCUM and DayZ, but I often leave both of them. I've left PoE too, lots of times. I leave PUBG every Sunday, after me and the boys are done killing for the weekend.

D4 is a new, shiny, polished, casual-friendly giant in the ARPG genre. People will leave. Some will 'leave' just to try it, some will stay, some streamers will leave because there's more viewers there, at least for a while. Some players will play both.

We can sit here when the next PoE league launches and watch the numbers. Maybe the dip below 200k. Maybe 150k if you're really critical. Who knows? I will of course say it's inevitable because of "Diablo", and that the same will probably happen to Last Epoch, Grim Dawn and whatever else ARPG that is somewhat relevant. You will probably say "told you so, this is ONLY a result of poor development". Of course, neither of us will know. You will probably claim to know, of course. We both KNOW that :P

The question here is probably: Is the focus on dedicated players GGG have going to secure a more stable core player base (come D4), than shifting to a more casual focus, putting themselves as a more direct competitor to D4? How many of the returning, dedicated, 5k+ hours fans/players would PoE lose if they made PoE more casual? How many of the "new" players drawn in bt GGG's casual focus would not be interested in D4?

Too many questions here to be... "Too high" on our own opinions.

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Bleu42 wrote:

You think D4, which is *launching* with far more content then any other arpg ever has in existence, and has in place quarterly seasons with new content / mechanics / items ect, AND has plans for full expansions with new classes and story will be shallow?

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Orbaal wrote:

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Bleu42 wrote:

You think D4, which is *launching* with far more content then any other arpg ever has in existence, and has in place quarterly seasons with new content / mechanics / items ect, AND has plans for full expansions with new classes and story will be shallow?

Short answer: Yes!

Long answer: Yes, because a game cant be casual and complex at the same time.
Those two things are mutually exclusive.

Just to be clear: Shallow does not mean lack of content but lack of complexity.
Those are very different things.


What I expect Blizz to do is precisely what they´ve always done.
Launch the game with a number of areas and a max lvl of X.
Then they add more areas, maybe some new classes and increase the max lvl to Y.
Rinse, repeat and dont forget to collect at least 30 bucks each time.

It still is fancy looking digital junkfood, designed to be easily digested and consumed quickly. Thats the point of a casual game.

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Bleu42 wrote:

Because you specifically mentioned longevity, which was the basis for my reply. Trying to manipulate the conversation doesn't make sense.

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Orbaal wrote:

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Bleu42 wrote:

Because you specifically mentioned longevity, which was the basis for my reply. Trying to manipulate the conversation doesn't make sense.

I wasnt trying to manipulate the conversion.

I dont think that adding content for the sake of more content adds all that much to longevity. GGG could add 200 new maps to the Atlas and I wouldnt think thats adding to the longevity at all. Its just 200 different tilesets of the same thing we had before.

It sure is new for a moment, but that novelty wears off real quick.

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Orbaal wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

While D4 is obviously going have the most impact of anything in PoE's history, it's just a byproduct of the situation PoE has created in their development strategy in terms of player experience.

This is where you are deadwrong.

You are implying the release of the biggest and most casual ARPG in this decade would have a lesser impact on PoE if PoE was more approachable for casuals and/or friendly towards casuals.
I dont think so.

D4 will suck the air out of the casual ARPG realm and likely kill every IP in that realm for good, the best chance of survival is outside this specific realm, which is not only where PoE is as we speak it also dominates the realm outside the casual ARPG market.


Its always been a niche game, its supposed to be a niche game and it will survive because its a niche game.

D4 will sink untold millions into marketing, attract a ton players, sell however many copies and be financially successful. No doubt.
Also no doubt that weeks/months later an unkown percentage of those players will be done with the game and bored to death.
If they wanted to keep playing an ARPG game that isnt as bland and shallow as D4, there is only one place for them to go.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I suppose my point was how exactly is GGG intending to get these average / casuals back, (if they do want them) from their D4 time? Or do you think GGG won't have to do anything and they will naturally come back through some sort of gaming inertia? That last bit seems a bit too hopeful to be a strategy imo.

Given a premsie they have to do something, what are the design adjustments? Are they even willing to do that? Will it impact PoE2, or has it already? All reasonable questions I think.