Why PoE 2 will again not get a Auction house? (or trading system)

"

Walltrigger wrote:

Meh, trading hasnt been a problem for me. Its a much better system than many other games I have played. Maybe make it easier to trade low value currency but thats about it. I see many say "fix trade" that only offer solutions that would be more harmful than good. Especially offline trading would be a disaster.

SSF progression is the real issue. I loved harvest because it made me less dependant on trade and I could focus more on actually playing the game. The trade system itself isnt bad but that the game is pretty much built around it is. If focus would shift from currency farming and reliance on rng I bet players would be more ok with current trading. Smooth out gear progression with predictability rather than rng first. Thats what I would like to see anyway.

Not necessarily. What I usually see is the people saying trade is fine are more casual than not or are more beginner at the game. And thefore couldn't actually evaluate properly whether the suggestions given would be fine or not.

I have 4k+ hours in this game, and I still think trading is still too tedious and an impediment to having fun.

Plenty of times I just wanted to get back in the game and run some maps, but had to basically either by mats like nuts before starting, or spend min 30 minutes of selling stash tabs before I could actually get playing.

I think the trade system is crap and pretty much everyone I see who's been playing for a while agrees, and other people with lower playtime do not seem to actually be able to guage properly what would be good or not for the game.

"

DeepAlchemist wrote:

"

Walltrigger wrote:

Meh, trading hasnt been a problem for me. Its a much better system than many other games I have played. Maybe make it easier to trade low value currency but thats about it. I see many say "fix trade" that only offer solutions that would be more harmful than good. Especially offline trading would be a disaster.

SSF progression is the real issue. I loved harvest because it made me less dependant on trade and I could focus more on actually playing the game. The trade system itself isnt bad but that the game is pretty much built around it is. If focus would shift from currency farming and reliance on rng I bet players would be more ok with current trading. Smooth out gear progression with predictability rather than rng first. Thats what I would like to see anyway.

Not necessarily. What I usually see is the people saying trade is fine are more casual than not or are more beginner at the game. And thefore couldn't actually evaluate properly whether the suggestions given would be fine or not.

I have 4k+ hours in this game, and I still think trading is still too tedious and an impediment to having fun.

Plenty of times I just wanted to get back in the game and run some maps, but had to basically either by mats like nuts before starting, or spend min 30 minutes of selling stash tabs before I could actually get playing.

I think the trade system is crap and pretty much everyone I see who's been playing for a while agrees, and other people with lower playtime do not seem to actually be able to guage properly what would be good or not for the game.

I mean, Ive been playing both casually and hyper focused since beta at different times. 4k hours isnt that much at all. Atleast we arent spamming trade chat anymore. Bots and price fixers are more of concern than the system itself. And those will thrive evn more with an offline AH.

Having to buy a bunch of stuff to play is exactly what im getting at when saying progression is poor. Fixing that will help trading.

"

DeepAlchemist wrote:

I think the trade system is crap and pretty much everyone I see who's been playing for a while agrees, and other people with lower playtime do not seem to actually be able to guage properly what would be good or not for the game.

I have between 2x-3x your playtime and I like trade the way it is. Actually that's not true, I wish they'd ban players who use 3rd party TOS-breaking apps so that all players were on a level playing field within their system.

The reason you don't hear from the people who agree with the current system is because GGG has made it pretty damn clear they aren't intent on changes to it, so there's no need for me to waste my time making posts or telling people

'wow isn't this thing great exactly how it is? just wanted to let everyone know that I don't want changes to this thing GGG said they wouldn't change!!'

I'm happy when players like Nidal speak up for the quiet enjoyers so that the 'frictionless trade now' crowd can't lie softly in their echo chamber.

"

innervation wrote:

"

DeepAlchemist wrote:

I think the trade system is crap and pretty much everyone I see who's been playing for a while agrees, and other people with lower playtime do not seem to actually be able to guage properly what would be good or not for the game.

I have between 2x-3x your playtime and I like trade the way it is. Actually that's not true, I wish they'd ban players who use 3rd party TOS-breaking apps so that all players were on a level playing field within their system.

The reason you don't hear from the people who agree with the current system is because GGG has made it pretty damn clear they aren't intent on changes to it, so there's no need for me to waste my time making posts or telling people

'wow isn't this thing great exactly how it is? just wanted to let everyone know that I don't want changes to this thing GGG said they wouldn't change!!'

I'm happy when players like Nidal speak up for the quiet enjoyers so that the 'frictionless trade now' crowd can't lie softly in their echo chamber.

i support this message

"

innervation wrote:

y what would be good or not for the game.

I have between 2x-3x your playtime and I like trade the way it is. Actually that's not true, I wish they'd ban players who use 3rd party TOS-breaking apps so that all players were on a level playing field within their system.

The reason you don't hear from the people who agree with the current system is because GGG has made it pretty damn clear they aren't intent on changes to it, so there's no need for me to waste my time making posts or telling people

'wow isn't this thing great exactly how it is? just wanted to let everyone know that I don't want changes to this thing GGG said they wouldn't change!!'

I'm happy when players like Nidal speak up for the quiet enjoyers so that the 'frictionless trade now' crowd can't lie softly in their echo chamber.

May I ask what exactly you like about it? And i really mean like as in "it's great this way" not like as in "i can't think of a better alternative" or "it is what it is and it's not going to change so just accept it."

I can somewhat understand why people don't want an AH/friction less trade even if i disagree but leaving alternatives aside, i can't think of a single reason why anyone could like the current system. It's unfun, inconvienient and forcefully distracts from what's supposed to be the essence of the game, i.e killing monsters in order to progress.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

innervation wrote:

y what would be good or not for the game.

I have between 2x-3x your playtime and I like trade the way it is. Actually that's not true, I wish they'd ban players who use 3rd party TOS-breaking apps so that all players were on a level playing field within their system.

The reason you don't hear from the people who agree with the current system is because GGG has made it pretty damn clear they aren't intent on changes to it, so there's no need for me to waste my time making posts or telling people

'wow isn't this thing great exactly how it is? just wanted to let everyone know that I don't want changes to this thing GGG said they wouldn't change!!'

I'm happy when players like Nidal speak up for the quiet enjoyers so that the 'frictionless trade now' crowd can't lie softly in their echo chamber.

May I ask what exactly you like about it? And i really mean like as in "it's great this way" not like as in "i can't think of a better alternative" or "it is what it is and it's not going to change so just accept it."

I can somewhat understand why people don't want an AH/friction less trade even if i disagree but leaving alternatives aside, i can't think of a single reason why anyone could like the current system. It's unfun, inconvienient and forcefully distracts from what's supposed to be the essence of the game, i.e killing monsters in order to progress.

You can absolutely ask! I go way back to the days of trading via 'forum shop' in PoE and there was something magical about the idea of going to someone's thread and seeing their shop. You'd browse some and leave disappointed, and you'd see others that were way out of your price range (mirror-tier stuff), and sometimes you'd find just the shop you were looking for. I think we like games that mirror real life, in fact I know we do - that's why there is a market for these grindy (think idle/cookie cliker) games. Those games should be just as wearying as our day-to-day grind, but they aren't, because constant progress lets us 'win' at the games unlike IRL where there is no guarantee of winning or constant forward progress.



This level of friction made it so that being a trader really was a game within a game. We joke (okay we're half serious) about that now - haha that guy isn't even playing the game, he just sits in his h/o and flips currency all day, making 3% value on each transaction, building up the bank over time. In modern PoE it's no wonder that has a bad reputation as not being fun. It's not fun.

Yet I think forum-shopkeeper time was fun. Why? 2 reasons

1. Because that level of friction creates artificial scarcity. Any kind of scarcity creates value in the face of demand. Trade value is a form of value-add that is perpendicular to the main form of value in this game - the 'lucky drop'. Perpendicular value is great for games because being able to do something off-meta to find success makes for a more rich and varied game experience.

2. Shopkeeping was an occasional thing to do which meant you did it when you felt like it - it wasn't some 'always on' thing that pulled you out of maps.

To expand on point 1. Scarcity. Today you find a well rolled item on the ground and at best dump it in a 2c or a 5c tab if its early enough in the league. When everyone can do it that easily, everyone does it, resulting in rock-bottom prices. In a high friction system, 75% of sellers can't be bothered to sell it, so the seller can charge more.

Kind of like how crafting items is a big value add. In a high friction system, doing the leg work of bringing items to market is a value add and lets you charge prices appropriately. Another scenario...

You find a rare wand with 6 desirable mods called the Throat Goat Imbued Wand. There are 9 other identical wands up for sale. In the current system there's not a lot of wiggle room on how you price the wand. You must price the item lower than the other 9, or you can price it in the middle or higher and hope that demand for the Throat Goat is sufficiently high as to result in the lower priced ones getting bought, leading the next prospective buyer to key in on yours.

Either way, you, the seller, are pretty much out of agency. There's no gameplay here.

In the forum shopkeeper system, your wand is worth more, even if there are 9 identical wands. How is this possible? Because it forced sellers to actually get off their ass and do some work. There was room for salesmanship. Add some graphics and color to your shop post. Work on the layout. Format out different areas of the shop. Run specials and discounts. Keep it updated. That may sound terrible but for the entrepreneur it was great because it rewarded your work as much as your luck. If you were willing to 'grind' at the trade game you would get better results than the same player with the same items in their shop. To me, this is gameplay.

I'm not saying the old forum system should come back, but in my experience, the higher the friction, the more it rewards the work, knowledge, and intelligence of the seller instead of just the pure RNG of finding an item. I would much prefer a system with flavor, texture, and gameplay to one of cold, robotic automation.

To expand much more briefly on point 2 I actually think players might like a higher friction system more than they think in the sense that...how often do you see complaints about 'having to leave your map to trade' and 'no one ever response to my trade PMs'? A high friction system is one that results in fewer, but more valuable trades per day. You'll both be pulled out of maps less, and also have fewer players ignore your PMs because that may be the only sale they make that day - they're not going to let that opportunity go away.

Well, you kinda went off course talking about forum shop trade instead of current trade but i guess the principle behind why you like it is roughly the same. You enjoy the idea of having a "game within the game".

Guess there is no way we will ever agree then because that's exactly the thing i hate the most. I don't play POE to play shopkeeper. I'd play something else if that's what i wanted. The game within a game being so much more efficient for progress than playing the actual game that it's essentially mandatory just makes it worse.

Thanks anyway.

"

Walltrigger wrote:

"

DeepAlchemist wrote:

"

Walltrigger wrote:

Meh, trading hasnt been a problem for me. Its a much better system than many other games I have played. Maybe make it easier to trade low value currency but thats about it. I see many say "fix trade" that only offer solutions that would be more harmful than good. Especially offline trading would be a disaster.

SSF progression is the real issue. I loved harvest because it made me less dependant on trade and I could focus more on actually playing the game. The trade system itself isnt bad but that the game is pretty much built around it is. If focus would shift from currency farming and reliance on rng I bet players would be more ok with current trading. Smooth out gear progression with predictability rather than rng first. Thats what I would like to see anyway.

Not necessarily. What I usually see is the people saying trade is fine are more casual than not or are more beginner at the game. And thefore couldn't actually evaluate properly whether the suggestions given would be fine or not.

I have 4k+ hours in this game, and I still think trading is still too tedious and an impediment to having fun.

Plenty of times I just wanted to get back in the game and run some maps, but had to basically either by mats like nuts before starting, or spend min 30 minutes of selling stash tabs before I could actually get playing.

I think the trade system is crap and pretty much everyone I see who's been playing for a while agrees, and other people with lower playtime do not seem to actually be able to guage properly what would be good or not for the game.

I mean, Ive been playing both casually and hyper focused since beta at different times. 4k hours isnt that much at all. Atleast we arent spamming trade chat anymore. Bots and price fixers are more of concern than the system itself. And those will thrive evn more with an offline AH.

Having to buy a bunch of stuff to play is exactly what im getting at when saying progression is poor. Fixing that will help trading.

4000 hours is starting to be a decent amount of hours.

Bots and price fixers are actually NOT very much of a concern, that seems like an actually amateur take. It feels so wrong everytime I see this as an argument to deny AH.

How many hours do you have out of curiosity?

"

innervation wrote:

"

DeepAlchemist wrote:

I think the trade system is crap and pretty much everyone I see who's been playing for a while agrees, and other people with lower playtime do not seem to actually be able to guage properly what would be good or not for the game.

I have between 2x-3x your playtime and I like trade the way it is. Actually that's not true, I wish they'd ban players who use 3rd party TOS-breaking apps so that all players were on a level playing field within their system.

The reason you don't hear from the people who agree with the current system is because GGG has made it pretty damn clear they aren't intent on changes to it, so there's no need for me to waste my time making posts or telling people

'wow isn't this thing great exactly how it is? just wanted to let everyone know that I don't want changes to this thing GGG said they wouldn't change!!'

I'm happy when players like Nidal speak up for the quiet enjoyers so that the 'frictionless trade now' crowd can't lie softly in their echo chamber.

They sure as heck could still change it, even though they've said they wouldn't. The game isn't that good btw. A lot of people were hoping for D4 to be a decent contender to POE, unfortuantely it turned out arguably garbage. It's just a matter of time though however if they don't actually start fixing some of the real issues, until another dev makes another game that finally gets GGG to fix the junk.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

innervation wrote:

y what would be good or not for the game.

I have between 2x-3x your playtime and I like trade the way it is. Actually that's not true, I wish they'd ban players who use 3rd party TOS-breaking apps so that all players were on a level playing field within their system.

The reason you don't hear from the people who agree with the current system is because GGG has made it pretty damn clear they aren't intent on changes to it, so there's no need for me to waste my time making posts or telling people

'wow isn't this thing great exactly how it is? just wanted to let everyone know that I don't want changes to this thing GGG said they wouldn't change!!'

I'm happy when players like Nidal speak up for the quiet enjoyers so that the 'frictionless trade now' crowd can't lie softly in their echo chamber.

May I ask what exactly you like about it? And i really mean like as in "it's great this way" not like as in "i can't think of a better alternative" or "it is what it is and it's not going to change so just accept it."

I can somewhat understand why people don't want an AH/friction less trade even if i disagree but leaving alternatives aside, i can't think of a single reason why anyone could like the current system. It's unfun, inconvienient and forcefully distracts from what's supposed to be the essence of the game, i.e killing monsters in order to progress.

I 100% agree with this. Too many times I just wanted to get back into the game to kill monsters, realizing I'd have to spend a decent chunk of time buying mats and cleaning my stash tabs, and just alt+F4'ed instantly or just actually plainly quit the league right there instead of going for another session.