What's the problem with the campaign? Everything in the game is repetitive!

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

its not about doing it once or even twice...if someone wants to try 8 different builds per league then they have to do it 8 times... you guys seriously dont mind doing it 8 times in a row?

I mean it’s more like 5 or 6 for me (and probably most only two of those make it to maps). But otherwise yes, seriously. I don’t see it as “having to do it” - it’s a game, I’m choosing to play it. If I don’t feel like playing it I do something else instead.

Part of the reason I start new characters is to go through the game with them to see how it’s different to the previous characters. I don’t want to skip bits of the game for the same reason I don’t want to skip the middle chapters of a book. The journey is the point, not rushing to “endgame”.

Having said that, I would very much like to see the option to play the campaign with all the “extra content” unlocked once you’ve been through it once per league.

I am in the campaign is not a problem camp myself, I find it hard to imagine a impactful character progression with out it in fact.

However I can see the disconnect some have for it. POE has this feeling of being in a time based encounter from the time you log in.

Got to get to maps as fast as possible then complete the atlas fast as possible. Finally acquire items for the build you want to play and hurry up through the campaign again so you can equip said items.

All the while there is an invisible clock clicking in the background whether it be how much time someone has to invest in the game, or the anxiety of being behind the curve of a trade economy which has real consequences.

for me maps are more mindless, i can get into a flow state, put on some music, put on an audio book and just zone into the gameplay and out of the game in a way? its kind of therapeutic like playing tetris or something.


the campaign just doesnt have that for me, its kind of jaring and you have to constantly consider where you are going and what you are doing. im so aware of it that it does to me feel like watching a movie ive seen 50 times for the 51st time. where mapping feels more like im listening to the radio.

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Aynix wrote:

Whats wrong with campaign? Its simple. ITs horrible because its not about killing monsters - its about reaching next zone asap.

This feels like a "you" problem, not a "game" problem. I kill lots of monsters doing the campaign, and have fun doing it, If you're speed-running the game all the time, skipping all the campaign content to get to a later zone, and not enjoying the game a result, then that might just be on you.

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Aynix wrote:

The campaign onalts needs to go. Most veterans are beyonfd sick of it and its main reason why they leave the game mid league instead trying another build.

I am a PoE vereran. I disagree. And I'm seeing plenty of other veterans who also disagree.

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Aynix wrote:

Im 100% sure if they would try one league with no campaign for alts the retention would be best it ever was.

Not only am I not convinced, I think the opposite might well be true: trivializing character progression might just trivialize the entire game, resulting in worse retention. And since the only way to test that is to make drastic changes to one of the most successful ARPGs in the market, in a way that might just kill it completely, I'd say it's not worth the risk. Since Jonathan's already said that they're not going to do it, I'd guess that they're seeing the same risk.

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sevens67 wrote:

I am in the campaign is not a problem camp myself, I find it hard to imagine a impactful character progression with out it in fact.

However I can see the disconnect some have for it. POE has this feeling of being in a time based encounter from the time you log in.

Got to get to maps as fast as possible then complete the atlas fast as possible. Finally acquire items for the build you want to play and hurry up through the campaign again so you can equip said items.

All the while there is an invisible clock clicking in the background whether it be how much time someone has to invest in the game, or the anxiety of being behind the curve of a trade economy which has real consequences.

Wow, that sounds horrible. It's almost like balancing the entire game around the necessity to trade in order to reach higher-tier content wrecks the game experience. It's a shame that nobody's ever suggested having a properly balanced solo mode in the game, where that's not necessary.

Oh, wait...

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3491092

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

I wish you could skip it with other characters when you finish it at least once per league. The biggest issue I had with MMOs was wanting to start a new class, but you always had to act like you were starting a new character. It's an MMO, the game takes 500 hours to get past the beginner stages. And PoE's and ARPG, it takes 6-10 for an average person to finish the campaign, which most don't even do

But what would such a boost look like? Instant character boost to 60? 62? 65? All skill points up to that point unlocked? First lab unlocked? A set of starter gear? A lesser company would charge real money for such a thing - at that point you're paying money to not play the game

But I dunno, that's partly the reason I try to stick to 1-does-all builds. Leveling characters is annoying. Even if it's easier when you get them starter gear it's still a night or two I have to lose out on when I could just be grinding on my original character, or playing another game

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Imaginaerum wrote:

I wish you could skip it with other characters when you finish it at least once per league. The biggest issue I had with MMOs was wanting to start a new class, but you always had to act like you were starting a new character. It's an MMO, the game takes 500 hours to get past the beginner stages. And PoE's and ARPG, it takes 6-10 for an average person to finish the campaign, which most don't even do

I've played games that tried to crowbar MMO features into an APG framework, and the results always just felt to me like a half-assed MMO.

Remember Devilian? It flopped so hard that its publisher shut down. Remember Marvel Heroes? It flopped so hard that its publisher shut down. Remember Hellgate: London? It flopped to hard that its publisher shut down. I feel like there's a pattern in there. And it's not just that David Brevik was at the helm of two of the three.

MMOs and ARPGs are very different genres. One is built and balanced around there always being plenty of players around to run content with; the other is overwhelmingly a solo PvE experience. Those things just don't appear to mix well.

Should GGG make changes to the game that cater to an MMO play-style, even though 95% of their players are playing by themselves? Should they allow campaign skipping in order to cater to people who didn't finish the campaign even once? To me, given the track record of games that try it, that sounds like a bad idea.

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Imaginaerum wrote:

But what would such a boost look like? Instant character boost to 60? 62? 65? All skill points up to that point unlocked? First lab unlocked? A set of starter gear? A lesser company would charge real money for such a thing - at that point you're paying money to not play the game

Even without a payment component, they'd be adding a feature which exists only to allow to allow ppl to progress through the game without playing it. It feels like a solid example of players optimizing all the fun out of games for themselves. Why even play the game at that point?

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Imaginaerum wrote:

But I dunno, that's partly the reason I try to stick to 1-does-all builds. Leveling characters is annoying. Even if it's easier when you get them starter gear it's still a night or two I have to lose out on when I could just be grinding on my original character, or playing another game

The core gameplay loop of an ARPG is very simple: 1) kill monsters, to 2) earn reawards, which 3) make you stronger, so that you can 4) kill more, stronger monsters, for even better rewards; repeat. That's it; that's the whole loop, and that simplicity is the appeal of the genre. If you only have time and patience to level one character per league, but you're enjoying doing to, then you're doing it right.

And, yes, playing other games as a palate-cleanser, so you don't burn out, is a solid plan. I do this myself, every league, and I even skip the odd league. I always have fun when I come back.

i think any meaningful conversation about a campaign skip is always looking at replacing the campaign content that is narrative based questing with alternate content that is designed to be rinse and repeat grind content you would play through from 1-68 that takes a similar amount of time but just feels different to play?


its never gonna be one of these warcraft things where you just start already levelled into endgame right? surely thats just ridiculous? the character still needs to progress and build up from lvl 1?


maybe im wrong but i dont think we would ever see that, jonathan pretty much said it would be cold day in hell if he ever even put in an alternate levelling method. the idea of skipping levelling all together?

i mean, if its what people want then by all means make a case for it i guess.

2 things come to mind

1) most builds require certain lvl to start working and the fastest way to do it is on the higher areas

2)there is nothing of value in the campaign. drops are bad and outside the ones that grant a skill point there is no point in doing side quest for some crappy rare.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

i think any meaningful conversation about a campaign skip is always looking at replacing the campaign content that is narrative based questing with alternate content that is designed to be rinse and repeat grind content you would play through from 1-68 that takes a similar amount of time but just feels different to play?


its never gonna be one of these warcraft things where you just start already levelled into endgame right? surely thats just ridiculous? the character still needs to progress and build up from lvl 1?


maybe im wrong but i dont think we would ever see that, jonathan pretty much said it would be cold day in hell if he ever even put in an alternate levelling method. the idea of skipping levelling all together?

i mean, if its what people want then by all means make a case for it i guess.

there is no need to replace the campaing, All GGG has to do is make it atractive for veteran players and a good tutorial for newcomers for instance making sidequest that explain mechanics like how to craft, difference between mods, how defense works, etc.. and at the end of it grant a good item.

say after we finish the fetid pool mission we are given a special item of choice (gloves, boots, armor, weapon, helmet) that cant be traded. This special item will have no mods but can be crafted over the campaign by completing sidequest related to crafting. By the end of the campaign the player should have a strong item, not some mirror tier item but good enough for maps.


a sidequest that explains defenses could go something along this lines:

quest: go to x area where monsters are dealing 100% increased physical damage, better bring some armor to protect yourself. do note the bigger the hit the less effective armor is so for big hits % reduction works better.

reward: rare item of choice with 2 guarantee mods of armor with the highest value for the area level.

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caboom wrote:

2)there is nothing of value in the campaign.

Except for bunch of fun. People are too obsessed with optimal progression.

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caboom wrote:

drops are bad and outside the ones that grant a skill point there is no point in doing side quest for some crappy rare.

I'll agree that side quest rewards can definitely use a re-work. Some of them feel very dated, and the rare items and flasks that you get are well behind the curve of most players' gear by that point. Even the ones that give respec points, which are useful, don't really give enough of them. And why do these take the form of books of respec, and not just regret orbs?

So, yeah, the campaign can definitely do with a refresh. It is seven years old, after all.