Why was the divination card reward structure changed?

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There shouldn't be a workaround to engaging with a boss in some way to get a BOSS item.

Then the trade in these items would also have to be prevented. Because that's a workaround.

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Donnergottl wrote:

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There shouldn't be a workaround to engaging with a boss in some way to get a BOSS item.

Then the trade in these items would also have to be prevented. Because that's a workaround.

Was already explained in detail.....you can re-read the posts yourself. Trade is NOT a workaround because the SELLER dropped the item from the boss. It's not a matter of whether you personally dropped the item from the boss, but whether the item ITSELF is dropped only from the boss.

Thats where PoE choice comes in

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

If they want people to do bosses more then bosses need to drop chase items with something approaching reliability instead of 1 every 50 or so if you're lucky.

I think you and I have very different definition of what a "chase item" is. Because even my dead monkey that I've never had understand that if a boss "reliably" drops a unique, that unique will be worth nada in a matter of days. Well, unless they make the boss encounter rare/expensive as hell.

Isn't all of this very... Fundamental?

you seem to be under the impression both that the value of an item is dictated exclusively by the supply, that is not the case it is dictated by both the supply and the demand and that I am suggesting that every boss should drop all their items every time. I am not, I am saying that a 2% drop rate is utterly ridiculous, as I pointed out a while back when the eater and exarch were introduced omni and ashes dropped about 20% of the time and even now the elder and uber elder drop a watchers about 25 to 30% of the time, that does not prevent a good watchers from being valuable and did not prevent ashes and omni from being worth quite a bit, what it did was bring those items into most players budgets, aside from hatred watchers most players can afford to buy a watchers with their primary important mod and a usable second mod but watchers farming is still one of the better ways to make money bossing, when in practice you are mostly selling the 2 to 5 div eyes, not the 60 to 100 div eyes you occasionally high roll into that basically no one who wants them can afford them.

In other words it would be to the benefit of basically everyone except the people who just mash ubers all league to make even rare boss drops reasonably attainable if you can do the bosses instead of a ridiculous gamble.

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

what it did was bring those items into most players budgets,

removing it from the "chase item" category entirely.

It is so odd that you just don't get that these items SHOULD be astronomically rare AND astronomically expensive. These are the absolute pinnacle of gearing we are talking about here....they shouldn't be dropping every 3rd run when hundreds of thousands or even millions of runs are done in a league.

Every player should NOT be running around with Ashes. Every player should NOT be running around with Omni. It should be a REAL task to get these. Their "value" in terms of USAGE comes from the item itself being absurdly powerful. People will ALWAYS shell out 100s of divines for items that are uniquely powerful. There's no concern at all that a bosser won't find a buyer....ever.

Once again, your argument is simple: you do not like boss grinding. SO DON'T DO IT!!! You have provided NO real reasons why increasing the drop rate or keeping cards (which is what this thread is about) is a GOOD thing FOR BOSSING.

I like doing bosses, I do not like doing bosses being a ridiculous gamble, ashes dropping 20% of the time instead of 2% of the time did not make it worthless it made it a high volume item instead of a shell out 100+ divs for a key build component. You seem to be under the impression that most boss drops are prestige items like MB or HH that your build benefits from but does not need, that is entirely incorrect, omni, ashes and nimis especially are all build enabling items that a large number of builds simply do not function without because they change the way your character and skills work, gating those items behind the least accessible content in the game and making them outrageously rare even then drastically curtails the availability and viability of those builds thus hitting the already screwed build diversity even harder.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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JunkHeadJoePC wrote:

You can do what you want, unless you don't do what I want, in which case you are wrong and should do what I want because you aren't doing what I wanted you to do in the first place which should be duh common sense, so just do what I wanted you to do in the first place so I can feel better about having some supposed influence in your decision making.

Did I get that right?

No, you read the exact opposite of what I wrote....good job! Critical reading skills.

If "I" want to boss, "you" don't have to. You can still get the item either way. Likewise, if "you" want to boss, I am not forced to if I want an item that only drops from said boss.

What I am arguing is far more fundamental, far more simple. Bosses exist in games like this to drop unique loot. That is their purpose in the game loop. Loot is the driving factor of every single decision one can make in this game. When bosses lost their unique loot thanks to cards, they lost 99% of their reason for existing. This is not a "You have to play this way!!!" argument at all: it is a fundamental design philosophy, which STILL allows you to choose whether or not to fight the boss. You still have complete control to play how YOU like to play: except the boss drop now holds more value, and makes more sense.

And you literally said it in your post above: Grinding Gear Games. The REASON to grind bosses is to get the gear they drop. For everything the game has to offer, there should be a REASON to grind. If you can pick up cards anywhere, there is NO REASON for anyone to grind a boss.

So what's the reason to change the loot tables of those bosses and bring almost every single decent drop in the uber variant, when most of those pieces of loot were designed years ago for the normal variant of the boss.
In addition, in order to farm those uber variants, "you" or someone else must be able to farm content that's:

1.generally admitted to be harder than the uber bosses,
2.generally drops superior loot to the uber bosses.

On your comment about the div change, they didn't think it as you did, nor they put any thought at all.
They just went for a nerf fest.

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panikouk wrote:

So what's the reason to change the loot tables of those bosses and bring almost every single decent drop in the uber variant, when most of those pieces of loot were designed years ago for the normal variant of the boss.
In addition, in order to farm those uber variants, "you" or someone else must be able to farm content that's:

1.generally admitted to be harder than the uber bosses,
2.generally drops superior loot to the uber bosses.

On your comment about the div change, they didn't think it as you did, nor they put any thought at all.
They just went for a nerf fest.

This is a VERY different conversation to have, unrelated to the one that has been taking place in this thread. And you also convolute ANOTHER issue (T17s) into the mix. Save your diversions for another thread, there are PLENTY that complain about exactly what you want to complain about.

My comments here and the conversation though....has nothing to do with moving drops to ubers or t17s.

Regarding devs thoughts: they ABSOLUTELY DID think as I did, otherwise there would be ZERO reason for them to make the change....are you being serious? Why ELSE would they remove these specific cards from the drop pool, if they weren't thinking about the bosses in which those items come from and how to bring back value to bossing? Also.....they TOLD US THIS!

No that is entirely topical to the discussion being had. The point is they are constantly reducing the already low supply of decent boss drops and while bossing is profitable if you run an absurd number of ubers its also basically lighting currency on fire to run a small number of them because you have abysmal odds of getting anything worthwhile out of it. The points we have all been making is that the supply is too low and keeps going lower and their obsession with absurdly low drop rates makes bossing a gamble instead of remotely reliable payouts which resulted in most of a given boss drop item on trade being a result of people farming the appropriate div card because you oftentimes would have an easier time of farming one of the div cards and then gambling it to the item than getting the drop from the uber even when you can do ubers without significant difficulty.

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

No that is entirely topical to the discussion being had. The point is they are constantly reducing the already low supply of decent boss drops and while bossing is profitable if you run an absurd number of ubers its also basically lighting currency on fire to run a small number of them because you have abysmal odds of getting anything worthwhile out of it. The points we have all been making is that the supply is too low and keeps going lower and their obsession with absurdly low drop rates makes bossing a gamble instead of remotely reliable payouts which resulted in most of a given boss drop item on trade being a result of people farming the appropriate div card because you oftentimes would have an easier time of farming one of the div cards and then gambling it to the item than getting the drop from the uber even when you can do ubers without significant difficulty.

how can you not see that this is the OPPOSITE of the conversation?! Seriously?

"The point is they are constantly reducing the already low supply of decent boss drops". SO THEY REMOVED THE CARDS outside of the boss....thereby INCREASING the supply of boss drops!!!!!!!

"The point we have all been making": No.....this point is NOT being made. The entire game, and every single thing you do in it, is a gamble. It's called "random loot", and it is literally in every single aspect of the game. You might run a map and drop a mirror, or you might run the same map with the same juice and same setup and get.....less than a divine.

The whole uber drop vs regular drop does NOT factor into a discussion about "Why did GGG change the div cards".

I don't mean to bring this up, but I'm a little pissed off now at this conversation. Your account is 1 year old.....you REALLY think you have the experience to even begin talking about "bossing" and "profit" in any meaningful way? You REALLY think you can talk about "reliable" payouts or GGG "constantly" doing anything?


From the first page in this thread, your only argument is that you hate the "roulette wheel" that is boss drops. You hate that, even if you choose to farm the boss, other areas are more profitable for your time. Which, frankly, didn't have anything to do with the OP, except to illustrate EXACTLY what GGG had in mind when they decided to go ahead with this particular change.

My response to the thread was: div cards were changed to bring new meaning to bosses, restricting drops to the ACTUAL BOSS and not outside of it. My response to YOUR first comment was this change only HELPS boss runs be more "reliable", be more "profitable". And you have since ignored every single thing I have written, to keep repeating "I hate running bosses!"

You brought up the Ashes/Omni example. Drop rate was maybe 1 in 5 at launch, and so the value of the item was less than 10d. When they lowered the drop rate, the corresponding value of Ashes/Omni shot up. The "reliability" and "value" of running the boss was basically the same either way. You just simply prefer instant gratification, which is good for you but NOT good for the game. Removing these items from dropping outside of bosses further increases their individual value WITHOUT needing to change the drop rate. Those same 50+ boss runs you did before now reliably hold MORE value for you.

GGG does NOT balance this game for you to get the best possible item in a DAY. It is balanced across MONTHS, even YEARS of playtime. If it were balanced around the DAY, this game would have died a LONG time ago. This is what D3 did and it was horrendous.


You personally want quick profit? Don't run bosses. You can sit in your hideout and roll flasks all day and all night and you can probably make a mirror in a day. Some folks genuinely LIKE bossing and farming bosses: this div card changed only helped make that a more appealing and lucrative farming strategy.