t17 too overtuned
" This is helpful, thank you. ~ Adapt, Improvise and Overcome
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You guys focus on why people die in T17 instead focusing on what T17 were supposed to be.
T17 were supposed to be "bridge" between T16 and Ubers. And they failed horribly. Ubers are DPS and "skill" check (people usually dont try to facetank ubers, they dodge their attacks manually). Meanwhile T17 are just checkbox list for severall things you need to reliably run them - things that are NOT needed for ubers. | |
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Reading this thread is best done while listening to this....
https://youtu.be/IZWrKHe7fmI I poop, therefore I am.
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" I don't think so because you are removing the players that do Ubers via a well balanced character and a bit of skill rather than giga dps and 3 dodges. What's more you can't actually make bridge content for the latter they are a design problem you fix it by changing the design not by supporting it. By that i mean that bridge content for how players glass cannon Ubers would be to put a boss in that simply requires X dps or it instantly kills everything in the arena where X is 2/3rds of the DPS to do the same to an Uber. That isn't really bridge content. Right now T17's for me have three primary problems Ceiling is too high via mods for bosses chosen Loot differential is too large between 16 and 17 They can be cheesed very easily which exacerbates 1 and 2 oh and #4 - Revenants |
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You realized where the problem lies. T17 should not be bridge between T16 and Ubers because "1v1" fight works completly diffrent than mapping. Its impossible for map content to be bridge for that because good bossers builds are not good map builds and vice versa.
If they really want to make a "bridge content" the T17 bosses could work as a that if they would be just boss arena - w/o the map and w/o those cancer mods that will brick 49 out of 50 runs. | |
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The map bosses don't function differently though, they are large spammy fights where the mechanics are poorly choreographed because they weren't designed to be used in the manner they are and you require a heavy amount of defence and/or damage to compensate for this.
That is actually identical to the Ubers. It isn't like the Ubers are good fights it was easily made content thrown out to challenge bored players. Do agree that boss only arenas without rolling mechanics would be a vastly better bridge but players wouldn't enjoy them it would be viewed as pointless gating boss content. Maps are all anyone really cares about because its the cornerstone of endgame. Maybe they should have dumped in the boss in a separate arena without any of the modifiers that would have been nice. Last edited by Draegnarrr on May 2, 2024, 7:58:05 AM
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" Thats just stupid. If that would be true, then there is no need for ANY bosses in this game at all. Remove SIrus, ELder, Shaper, Maven, Exarch, Eater, Katarina, Aul etc. IF people only care about mapping why add bosses? Also if Ubers would be just "added for bored people" then they would not design uniques that are dropped only by ubers. Last edited by Aynix on May 2, 2024, 8:14:59 AM
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t17s are also just rippier by far than ubers. Uber pinnacles have proper coreographing for their attacks, even uber sirus and uber exarch, who are the two big offenders for obnoxious bullshit without being able to properly dodge still provide enough warning that you can dodge most of their big hits and with enough defensive layers tank the smaller ones you cannot dodge (aside from the ball phase, for that you either need minions, frost wall spam or unrealistically low latency + frostblink of wintry blast) whereas the t17 bosses are buffed up versions of league mechanic bosses, most of whom do not signal when they are about to do a big hit and/or have just generically obnoxious as hell mechanics all of which are made much worse by the upgrades to t17 and the horrific mechanics they produce.
Catarina and Lycia are the particular outliers for what were the devs thinking (they pretty clearly weren't) as Catarina spams invisible ground degen while having multiple hard invuln phases and high burst minibosses and Lycia has a hard invuln phase where she spams screen filling aoe while a beidat miniboss blinks across the arena making any build reliant on even moderately slow projectiles unable to hit it and forces every build to either instagib it or facetank buffed lycia lightning waves. When you need to abuse scarabs to remove mechanics from maps and all of the abusable atlas boni to make them even appear to be remotely reasonable without an aura bot that is actively ridiculous. A t17 spider rare from abomination with no offense boosting map mods hits harder than 100% delirious t16 kosis with two instances of gain phys as ele. That is vastly more damage than is reasonable as it hit roughly twice as hard as the uber shaper slam. |
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" *shrugs* you need to talk to GGG not me on this one, they didn't have drops originally and you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that mapping isn't the cornerstone of endgame. Bosses are incidental and also increasingly irrelevant. That doesn't represent my own views at all but I have a hard time believing that isn't the regular players experience. Last edited by Draegnarrr on May 2, 2024, 8:32:10 AM
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The best way to do T17's is to: ArtCrusade wrote: You can utilize - Packed with Energy Niko tech (easy 3% max res and a solid chunk of damage) - Huck with Heist equipment for a free level 15 aura + Adrenaline buff - Domination shrines for lots of temporary power - Horned Scarab of Awakening to remove either prefixes or suffixes from the map mods (which essentially removes the bad half of mods) So Basically You either need a Party, an Aura bot, or have to break the game to be able to play. Also its about time to lessen Party play bonuses, completely wrecked the economy. |
