I wonder how many of these failed leagues will it take GGG for them to learn, if ever?

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

I have taken a class in statistics.

EXPERT ALERT! Watch out

My Math minor is focused in set and graph theory not stats, I took stats because I thought it might be useful. In the end his analogy about taking out the garbage doesn't work because it was an attempt to treat two wholly unlike things as equivalent and claim that just because at least one of them (the leagues) happen semi-regularly that my statement that the pattern of changes to the game is a problem is equivalent to him calling himself a garbage man.

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

I have taken a class in statistics. You however would benefit from a course on logic. What you are doing is essentially arguing that their terrible decisions and complete lack of respect for the playerbase and their time should be excused simply because its not a mistake they make too often. You are acting like the massive nerfs to the base game are just a shit league mechanic. They are not, they are a massive reduction in the amount and quality of loot available to most players and while they have partially walked back previous nerfs sometimes they have never fully undone any of them and the base game has severely suffered as a result.

Maybe it wasn't a very good class, or you slept through it..

If you had you'd know that 3 out of 40 bears no significance, and on a timeline of 2021, 2022 and 2024 with many leagues between you are merely grasping at straws. That's what logic would tell you

Ask anyone with a basic understanding of math....3 out of 40 does not make a trend. Especially not when they have no temporal correlation to each other.

if it were three in a row, you might actually have SOME leeway to offer an observational correlation.

The "logic" being expounded is flawed and emotional rather than actually mathematical.


Even the premise of the issues you mention are flawed on the basis of it being merely your own personal experience with those particular leagues. I would bet that the Numbers and $ would suggest otherwise, completely nullifying even those 3 examples. If we are getting into the learned "math" and "logic" of it all....

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

What you are doing is essentially arguing that their terrible decisions and complete lack of respect for the playerbase and their time should be excused simply because its not a mistake they make too often.

If anything they are far too respectful of the playerbase IMO and have completely ceased to make important changes to the game instead of just taking the easy road.

That being said in development terms its understandable I'm not even sure they have the staff available to do major changes anymore. What the barebones team is currently producing is what it is - hit or miss.

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CarbotZergling123 wrote:

What you are doing is essentially arguing that their terrible decisions and complete lack of respect for the playerbase and their time should be excused simply because its not a mistake they make too often.

And this right here is how I know you are approaching this from an illogical standpoint. "Terrible decisions and complete lack of respect" are emotional responses, not remotely supported by statistics or any math.

And YES: It should be excused because it's not a mistake they make too often. That is how you act as a functional human being. Not holding few mistakes against the entire history of a person, company, or entity. Especially when they arguably aren't even totally "mistakes". (hint: the game still exists).

Unless you happen to be some perfect symbol of the pinnacle of human evolution where every single person alive loves you and agrees with everything you say, and you make no errors.

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Glorfndel01 wrote:

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DiabloImmoral wrote:

There's no way to slow progression that's good for the average player. Streamers will be killing ubers and farming T17s within the first 15 hours of league no matter what. Groups will be manipulating the economy and controlling the market on all rare materials from hour 1. It gets worse every league as the "race" for clicks/viewers gets tighter and tighter and more meta.

Making farming feel meaningful for the 99% should be the goal. This league was an absolute failure on every level in that aspect.

And it feels we are hurtling towards the end of poe1

Interested to see what the next league and it's announcements bring for poe1

Also interested in when the poe2 beta will show up as the expectants have reached fever pitch in their excitement which usually results in...disappointment 

True! even the 3 last leagues support packs sucked, can't believe it that back in the day the will also add weapon/shields, weapon effect mtx for a support pack, they don't even put time and dedication in that packs seems like it

Don't think you need math, stat or logic to make the point that casual PoE experience used to be much more smoother.

I dont think there were a lot of very bad failure leagues the last few years.
A few outliers that kept in memory 3.15 grand nerfs that made melee dog water tier.
Archnemesis for its loot goblins and introduction of some very melee unfriendly mods.
Kalandra for essential being standard most of the leagues gameplay.
To some degree Affliction for me personally. It had its great opportunities like That Which Was Taken. Great item. I hope they bring it back in some form. On the other hand the focus on magic find (item rarirty/item quantity) and the multi divine drops per maps with wisp juice where players gave it the nickname inflation league - and it infact hit standard pretty hard after the merge mirror prices essentially doubled from the divine standard since merge.

But if we exclude those few examples over the years i think GGG has a very good track record.

Necropolis as a patch was decent with new endgame stuff, new farming methods that do not require mf albeit mf is still the best farming option. I see the downsides too the brick mods acting as hard counters to build types especially with back to basics are not exciting and holds certain build types like melee down with a boot on its head.

Last but not least I think Adorned Jewel was one of the few mistakes. Its too consuming and build warping but in a homegenous way. I feel like some rare jewels like the regular crimson/viridian/cobalt need more power to compete same is true for the rare Abyss Jewels. Also the mod pools are way too poluted right now to roll a good one.

But overall on average I think the track record is pretty positive.

Some stuff where GGG did nail it pretty hard and did a great job:
- Tattoos including build enabling Keystone Tattoos
- Crucible Weapon & Shield Trees - build enabling mods
- That Which was Taken - some mods are build enabling
- Recombinators - allowed the creation of pretty "unique" rare items
- Scourge Items some were also build enabling esp. the Keystone ones
- 3.13 Harvest Crafting aka the Golden Era of PoE. I never saw standard on fire like in this patch
- Delirium with its Cluster Jewels - build enabling

I think if GGG pairs the good innovations with decent archetype balancing like bringing melee more in line with spells and projectiles from a number balance perspective the endresult would be a wonderful next league.

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zzang wrote:

I think if GGG pairs the good innovations with decent archetype balancing like bringing melee more close to spells and projectiles from a number balance perspective the endresult would be a wonderful next league.

They need to reconcile the melee popularity perspective that if melee is somehow dominant that means it's overpowered.

To the contrary melee just happens to be more popular in ARPG genres. Always has been.

They might've achieved a goal of making melee (especially gladiator) non-existent but the game is worse overall for it. DD might be very powerful but it's also very boring.