Friction is becoming such a boomer thing

thank god you saved us from friction.

I googled wtf is Friction
"the rubbing of one body against another. the friction of sandpaper on wood. b. : the force that resists relative motion between two bodies in contact"

What does rubbing two bodies have to do with PoE?

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shadowthedead wrote:

I googled wtf is Friction
"the rubbing of one body against another. the friction of sandpaper on wood. b. : the force that resists relative motion between two bodies in contact"

What does rubbing two bodies have to do with PoE?

Imagine one body is the game's difficulty. The other is the player's skill level.

The two come into contact and 'grind' against one another. This creates friction. In this context, another word for that friction is 'challenge'. Tension, maybe. It's uncomfortable but also intimate in a way. Friction without conflict is very rare. It's often associated with 'jank/rough edges' and 'player unfriendly design' -- limitations that are designed to make a game harder/more compelling. There are plenty of articles out there if you add the words 'game design' to your 'friction' google, which you honestly should have done for yourself instead of just relying on a dictionary definition.

It's an abstract concept deployed a little sloppily. A buzzword really. I wouldn't expect occasionally very literally-minded Exiles to get it at face value, so I hope this helps.

In this light, it absolutely has to do with PoE, which sometimes seems designed on almost every level to generate friction with its players: trade is primitive compared to other games; mechanics are obfuscated and require a lot of research; the game is straight-up newbie-unfriendly. None of these are judgment calls on my behalf: I think they're neither good nor bad as long as they're what the playerbase want.

I do think however PoE 2 turns out in terms of friction will be a huge statement by GGG on what they think of the concept in 2024/25. I would be extremely surprised if PoE 2 has the same abundance of frictional design as PoE 1.

PoE2 won't have the same friction anyway, todays gamers aren't yesterdays and standards change.

It was always the case that the wrong kind of friction just irritated players anyway its just that the right amount was worth more than not having any at all.

Actually one of the biggest ways I think the games industry has rounded the right corners over the years, bad friction is mostly gone aside from the genres where its the core game design in order to access your wallet. For the rest friction is seen as directly opposed to usability and thankfully many games take that seriously now.

That isn't to say that PoE2 will likely fit right on what each of us considers acceptable, but I have a distinct feeling its moved a big step towards said usability, I expect easier trading (for better or worse) and less wiki requirements.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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shadowthedead wrote:

I googled wtf is Friction
"the rubbing of one body against another. the friction of sandpaper on wood. b. : the force that resists relative motion between two bodies in contact"

What does rubbing two bodies have to do with PoE?

Imagine one body is the game's difficulty. The other is the player's skill level.

Then there GGG's use of friction as in trade friction. Friction here is just a bunch of extra steps you need to go through in order to complete the trade.

Another friction GGG likes is the pick up all the crap from the ground friction aka feel the weight friction. This is especially annoying since most modern arpgs have some autoloot functionality.

Both trade and loot friction has nothing to do with the player's skill level.

One good point, with a TON of rambling nonsense.

"GGG needs to cut down on unnecessary friction such as <insert here>". That's all this post needed.

Now, what the rest of the 10000 words accomplished? A whole bunch of incorrect analyses, and just blatant falsehoods with tons of personal bias seeping in.

I'll point out a few because (and he even knew it once he posted) I am one of the called-out "gatekeepers" here:
1) GGG recognizes what? Who told you that? Because they are making changes? They've always made changes. And with a brand new game HAS TO come brand new ideas. They can't just "remake" the exact same game....this is true of every single game creator that has released a sequel to a game EVER.

2) More friction = more things to do.....uh what? There is infinitely more to do TODAY than there was "back in the day"

3) Less games, less competition "back in the day": roflmao. Maybe PERSONALLY there wasn't more competition, but the game environment (BIG titles and indie titles) is exactly the same today as it was back then. You just happen to be bored with PoE and getting more distracted by other games than you did in the beginning. In fact, there might have actually been MORE competition back in the day because games were generally smaller and released much more frequently.

4) Standard = default game, THE game: Not going to rehash this in yet another thread, but this has never been true past the first year of PoE's existence.

5) All the random stuff that has nothing to do with friction re: asmongold, items, etc. And then all the stuff about you getting attacked for your "feedback". Perhaps less unnecessary fluff and disconnected thoughts and more editing is needed, and has been needed in many of your previous posts?


TLDR: the truth is you are bored with PoE 1. That's all there is to it. It took 10+ years, but you are finally bored. PoE 2 will be different because its a different game, and it will either be great or too different and too un-poe for the current players to enjoy. The OP analysis isn't some grand discovery on friction like its written out to be; no, it is simply a player crying out from boredom.

A lot of this can also be related to the phrase "I wish modern games were shorter." I tried to play FF16 recently and it's unbelievable to me how much worthless filler they shoved in that game to pad out the playtime for no reason. I played through Bioshock 1, 2, and Infinite in less than the time it took for me to give up on FF16. PoE is already a good long game with worthwhile reward for your effort, there's no need to take a page out of JRPG game design and extend the playtime

The main problem I see, is to be forced to use 3rd party tools to inspect builds, read about features, o investigate what a boss does. As others said, certain mechanics were too obfuscated, bloated and counterintuitive.

On the other hand, I love to die on Hillock or Mud Flats if I dont take care with a melee dude. Most of games today are disney leisure areas, what makes different PoE from others is it's core system a fossil design, from where games are hard and challenging.

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Imaginaerum wrote:

A lot of this can also be related to the phrase "I wish modern games were shorter." I tried to play FF16 recently and it's unbelievable to me how much worthless filler they shoved in that game to pad out the playtime for no reason. I played through Bioshock 1, 2, and Infinite in less than the time it took for me to give up on FF16. PoE is already a good long game with worthwhile reward for your effort, there's no need to take a page out of JRPG game design and extend the playtime

Am I misunderstanding this or are you hating on jrpgs. If you are how is that not bannable.

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Imaginaerum wrote:

I tried to play FF16 recently

That's on you for not doing a little research. That said, I'm sorry.

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Maybe not 'shorter' so much as just better and more appropriately paced. I don't think Elden Ring or BG3 are particularly short, but they are both packaged in a way that feels like you have distinct control over how long you play for and what you do with that time.

I think it comes back to the idea that games that respect a player's time will almost always trump those that treat time like a metric to be filled. And again, the GaaS will be much more concerned with the latter because it translates directly into a likelihood to keep supporting. A game as product can be as long or short as it wants -- it makes no extra money based on playtime, beyond a potential for additional content somewhere down the line.

A GaaS that respects the player's time...not sure I can even think of one.

But a game as product that doesn't? *Buzzer* junk.