Map sizes feel too large, some thoughts why
I am going to likely address some common feedback points here regarding map size. I am no game design expert but have thought a lot about why this particular thing feels bad as I am an alt-oholic and have made like 6 characters so far in EA.
I will focus on campaign map sizes as I have only completed maybe ~30 endgame maps to tier three on my freeze Invoker Monk. Based on an early impression of endgame map size, I would say the same problems persist but to a lesser extent depending on the environment. Take that with a grain of salt though. TLDR: Campaign maps are too large because of a compounding effect related to game design choices. These design choices in their totality create a lot of friction around large map size. Before it's potentially brought up, the checkpoint TP's slated to be implemented WILL NOT solve this problem, it is a bandaid fix at best, but still a good idea. Character/Gear related issues: There is no quicksilver flask. Movement speed mods are relatively tough to get especially on a first character/early on (this can feel less bad if you get lucky, keep good move mod items from other characters, or find an essence) These things result in back tracking and exploring the map feeling tiresome. When finding a new area/door, I immediately go in and check for a waypoint so as not to waste time from an untimely death further along the path. I am finding ways to optimize not wasting my time on backtracking. Ideally I should not feel the need to do this so intentionally in this game. I think character movement itself doesn't feel bad though. I think it actually feels and looks just right when considering attack animations and such. Combined with map size though, movement speed being scarce makes your low or baseline speed inaqequate and bad. It makes speed feel necessary and not like something that is just a desireable bonus. It feels terrible at worst when you don't have it and amazing when you do. Layout related issues: The maps and environments are very pretty and crafted with artistic mastery. However, as nice as they are, they are also prone to the pitfalls of procedural generation and the reality of tilesets. You will notice, particularly in Act 3, many areas repeating after a time. I believe sprawling map size exacerbates this feeling of repetition. With the more combo focused and intentional combat, dense small maps would really hamper some builds. BUT the Dreadnaught and Freythorn/Azak Bog layouts exist... so I don't think maps are intended to be big for that reason alone. Those maps are TIGHT, and particularly the Dreadnaught is infamous as excessively long treks on tight ropes to the end. Enemy Respawns: I think the enemies respawning after death is fine. Respawning to the nearest discovered checkpoint with new enemies is a justified punishment for dying in my opinion. It also has to be acknowledged that this contributes negatively to map size friction. Some suggestions to make this problem less bad I would suggest considering a 30%-50% DECREASE in overall map size across the board. Make monster packs have a couple more monsters perhaps, to keep combat going between the hallways and corridors. Tweak layouts to be less tight to reduce egregious body blocking on the player character AND reduce abuse from minions/NPC's to block off enemy assaults (e.g. Dreadnaught NPC blocking enemies on bridges). Make a checkpoint generally appear near a middle point of the map? Perhaps make doorways appear on the overlay/minimap a little further than they do now in order to guide player progression through the map when they get closer to entry and exit points. Even one of these things carefully implemented would help improve the feel of maps. Also note, people will contintue to harp for a campaign skip if the seemingly arbitary time/length issue isn't addressed meaningfully and thoughtfully. Some suggestions on what NOT to do Increase values of overall player movement and mods, reintroduce a quicksilver flask like item or mechanic, and add waypoints all over the place. All of these are bandaids that don't address the fundamental issues while also hurting other aspects of the game that I feel are fine or good. Sorry for the essay. Hope this helps and if anyone has additional thoughts with constructive feedback put it here. [Posting this in the PoE 2 section instead of the PoE 1 feedback section, whoops.] Last bumped on Dec 27, 2024, 7:59:29 PM
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Strong disagree. Once waypoint TP comes, the maps will be just right. They are consciously avoiding the PoE 1 experience of everything being hyperfast. I and many others think this was the correct choice.
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Agreed overall, and to reiterate (in case GGG just scrolls too fast since they have told us they don't like wordy feedback posts): The solution is to make map sizes 30-50% smaller overall.
Something I'd like to add, though, is that a lot of the layouts just feel incredibly samey. The outside areas are all windy and maze-like. I feel like I've done the same zone 20 times, and I'm still in Act 3. Without variety, the process of working my way through the campaign feels incredibly boring. Are they too afraid of making even one zone like "the ledge" from Path of Exile 1, afraid that people might stick around and farm in an area because they like it, rather than pushing forward? |
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" While I understand why they say this, GGG needs to realize that they need to get their reading glasses out and thinking cap on. This game will not be improved from bullet points. I hope they earnestly look through detailed feedback amongst the incessant complainers. " This is something I would have addressed more in my post that I noticed as well. Winding and long but narrow environments and mazes or forests with a ridiculous amount of tight clusters of impassable terrain are some noticable patterns in the campaign. |
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" 100% disagree here. What's the point of having such huge maps - especially with mobs respawning - with 0 quest indicators? This is my first PoE game, but I almost quit multiple times because of the size of the map. It doesn't make the game better, especially with the "minimalist indicators" GGG decided to go for. I don't want to spend 20 minutes running around the same map. I'd rather do 2-3 smaller maps. Right now, map size is the by far the biggest problem I have with the game. |
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Yeah the game really needs quest indicators if they want these maps to be 50 km stadiums lol, that or make the zones as big as in PoE 1 and call it a day. People will get sick of this campaign so fast you have no idea. Act 3 looks like such a snoozefest, its all literally the same jungle and vaal city zones repeating infinitely, it's like they designed the campaign to make you fall asleep.
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" The 2-3 smaller maps point is actually really important to note. You said you didn't play PoE 1, but they actually did a decent job of having a giant area spread across multiple "maps", by functionally having floors fo the level. The Sceptre of God and Shavronne's Tower are examples of small-ish (they were labyrinthine in their own right, don't misunderstand) maps that were put together. It would be nice to be able to have more discrete landmarks that show you are going in the right way, or atleast a way toward something. |
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Agreed. This is easily one of my biggest gripes. No haste, no flasks, no travel abilities, very low drop rate on decent movement speed boots.
IMO the areas need up to a 50% reduction in size or a more linear layout (this isn't an open world exploration game) and we need travel skills, movement speed auras, or increase the total movement speed affix parameters on boots to 15-50%. Having mana siphoners faster than you are is a RIP. |
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If there were more interesting things in the maps they they wouldn't feel so large. As it is, you just fight the same old mobs over and over and over, maybe get 1 special boss.
Walking around campaign maps feels like a non-rewarding grind, that occasionally kills you in frustrating ways. |
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They just feel bigger cause we move to damn slow.
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