How to Fix Movespeed on Boots

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Azdrubel#6242 wrote:

... or they could just remove all movespeed modifiers from gear, skills, passives and ascendancies and make all characters run 40% faster. And if some archetypes were significantly faster than others, they could reduce their movespeed to put them in line.

Nah. Some characters should be able to move more quickly than others. Pathfinders should be generally faster than Titans.

The problem is that the default movement speed clearly feels insufficient and punitive to players, and furthermore feel that movement speed is too vital on boots. One could increase the base movement speed by a given percent, reduce the effect of movement modifiers on boots, and leave the small handful of options in the tree largely untouched since almost nobody takes movement in the tree anyways.

I do like the idea of a rune or perhaps a soul core that provides movement speed as well, though then you run into the problem of "what if someone puts 7+ Movement runes/cores into their armor?" since that mod cannot be made exclusive to boots. At which point I say, who cares? If that's what the player wants to prioritize, who're we or GGG to tell them no?

I know that personally, my characters feel like they're moving "normally" at around 15-20% increasd movement. More is always better and I'm one of those insane yaybos who actually quite prizes movement speed passives in the tree, but 15-20% is when I stop jonesing for it and start seeing more as a useful upgrade rather than addressing a deficiency. I have to wonder if it's similar for other folks, despite all the whinging about "35% MOVESPEED BOOTS ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY" you always get from yaks.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

Nah. Some characters should be able to move more quickly than others. Pathfinders should be generally faster than Titans.

From a balance perspective they shouldn't. If you look at games that actually care about balance, like League of Legends or DotA for example, melee characters get significant movespeed and mobility buffs while ranged characters often do not. A Titan is subject to monsterdamage for way longer due to the fact that he has to get into melee range while a pathfinder can start to deal damage as soon as they see a monster. So from that perspective the Titan should be significantly faster than the Pathfinder. So I guess it's all a bit subjective what should or should not be the case, eh?

But yeah, I agree that movespeed feels too necessary on boots. Funnily enough, the only time it felt fine to use boots without movespeed in an ARPG was in conjunction with the item that is always pointed out as a significant design mistake - Enigma in Diablo 2 LoD. Since with unlimited teleport it really didn't matter if you had movespeed or not.

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Azdrubel#6242 wrote:

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1453R#7804 wrote:

Nah. Some characters should be able to move more quickly than others. Pathfinders should be generally faster than Titans.

From a balance perspective they shouldn't. If you look at games that actually care about balance, like League of Legends or DotA for example, melee characters get significant movespeed and mobility buffs while ranged characters often do not. A Titan is subject to monsterdamage for way longer due to the fact that he has to get into melee range while a pathfinder can start to deal damage as soon as they see a monster. So from that perspective the Titan should be significantly faster than the Pathfinder. So I guess it's all a bit subjective what should or should not be the case, eh?

But yeah, I agree that movespeed feels too necessary on boots. Funnily enough, the only time it felt fine to use boots without movespeed in an ARPG was in conjunction with the item that is always pointed out as a significant design mistake - Enigma in Diablo 2 LoD. Since with unlimited teleport it really didn't matter if you had movespeed or not.

Counterpoint: nobody plays a huge hulking brute wearing six hundred pounds of platemail and wielding a Volvo on a stick to dance like a weightless ballerina, and nobody plays an agile nimbly-bimbly barely-armored bow-wielding dancer to move like their knees are broken.

The play expectation and experience for the two classes is that Warriors are able to ignore/shrug off scores of minor hits and take the brunt of enemy damage to their chin directly, while "Legolas-y" characters like the Ranger utilize mobility and evasive tactics to avoid being hit in the first place. That is not currently how the game works because armor is crap, which needs to be addressed, but it's what the design intent is. The Warrior is supposed to feel heavy, ponderous and unstoppable because that's the class fantasy the design is targeting and what players who want to be a huge tank smashing their way through the demon hordes of Wraeclast want.

This constant thing that TRU MELEE people want, where "melee characters have less uptime for their damage so they should be better at literally everything - movement, damage, defense, ALL OF IT", has been an obnoxious pox on the game for forever, way back into the PoE1 days.

there need to be some other sources of movement speed in order to not making every pair of boots without it completely useless by default.

on top, getting movement speed should be nice to have, not mandatory

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1453R#7804 wrote:

Counterpoint: nobody plays a huge hulking brute wearing six hundred pounds of platemail and wielding a Volvo on a stick to dance like a weightless ballerina, and nobody plays an agile nimbly-bimbly barely-armored bow-wielding dancer to move like their knees are broken.

The play expectation and experience for the two classes is that Warriors are able to ignore/shrug off scores of minor hits and take the brunt of enemy damage to their chin directly, while "Legolas-y" characters like the Ranger utilize mobility and evasive tactics to avoid being hit in the first place. That is not currently how the game works because armor is crap, which needs to be addressed, but it's what the design intent is. The Warrior is supposed to feel heavy, ponderous and unstoppable because that's the class fantasy the design is targeting and what players who want to be a huge tank smashing their way through the demon hordes of Wraeclast want.

This constant thing that TRU MELEE people want, where "melee characters have less uptime for their damage so they should be better at literally everything - movement, damage, defense, ALL OF IT", has been an obnoxious pox on the game for forever, way back into the PoE1 days.

Agreed, even though I didn't say those things and you know that quite well. That doesn't really fix the problem of movespeed on boots though.

At this point I would rather they just boost initial movement speed on the person and remove the stat entirely from the boot mod because regardless of how you try to address the issue it will always be a requirement to have

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xpose#1651 wrote:

regardless of how you try to address the issue it will always be a requirement to have

I'm not convinced it's a requirement now (or rather that it will actually be a requirement when they're done fine tuning things). It's just a very desirable affix.

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drkekyll#1294 wrote:

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xpose#1651 wrote:

regardless of how you try to address the issue it will always be a requirement to have

I'm not convinced it's a requirement now (or rather that it will actually be a requirement when they're done fine tuning things). It's just a very desirable affix.

There are specific circumstances where movement speed increase would be a requirement but if there is an mod that makes your character move faster in general it will be the most desired trait because without it naturally feels worse unless baseline movement without it doesn't make it that big of an impact but right now going from 40% MS to 0-10% is extremely game changing when it comes to dodging mechanics and just general quality of life

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Banneddd#5088 wrote:

Nothing to fix, it's just a mod like any other that needs to be balanced around what crafting power they have given to players.

agree

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Nah. Some characters should be able to move more quickly than others. Pathfinders should be generally faster than Titans.

This is already addressed in the passive tree though, ranger has quite a few move speed nodes in the passive tree that would be difficult and not worth it for Warrior starters to pick up.

Removing move speed entirely and buffing base speed is no different to adding it as an implicit.

The other option is to go half way, buff base move speed by 20% and have a max 15-20% roll on boots.