Mana cost progression
" By adding nodes in the tree you also mean to remove the gems that increases the dmg? So every class that uses gems that increases dmg would require to have multiple repeated nodes on the tree. Then a whole new problem would be how to prevent players from stacking those nodes. One solution? Put a higher mana cost when doing more dmg/using those nodes... Then someone just like you gonna write the same post about mana issues. Ur build can't sustain mana even w/ flask and leech? Can u post a link so we can see if there is an easier solution in-game instead of trying to literally change the game for your build to work? Last edited by SteamSkullerR#7239 on Jan 23, 2025, 4:19:06 PM
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Hear, hear. Mana costs are absurd once you start getting into the higher end. This is especially true for melee builds, where you're forced into taking blood magic nodes (as Warrior) or stacking int and mana pool (as Monk) to make up for the sheer mana costs of a Lv20+ skill gem. For casters, you naturally stack int through the tree and your gear. But your mana costs are still high, so you want Melting Maelstrom (Delirium flask)... but you shouldn't have to chase a high-value unique to solve your basic mana issues. It's even worse once you realize that the damage difference between a Lv19 to a Lv20 skill - and a Lv20 to a Lv21/22 skill - is massive. Giving up that damage is non-negotiable; you have to work around the steep mana costs to enable that level of clear and bosskill.
I understand GGG probably wants to limit player power by imposing these mana costs, but it does not make for an interesting/engaging system in this game. In a game like vanilla WoW, the opportunity cost decision players must make is "I use a Lv1 Frostbolt/Blizzard for CC, not damage, and I use the max level skill for damage." In PoE2, usually your only options are damage and more damage. Having to sacrifice mana sustain for the only thing you're ever asked to do (deal damage) just feels bad. In the case of utility skills (Frost Bomb and Solar Orb to spread ice and fire exposure, the upcoming Druid Tornado that GGG billed last year as a pure CC skill, etc.), you still want high gem levels because their most desirable effects often scale with gem level. It doesn't help that we have so few ways of restoring mana in PoE2. Leech's formula seems to be broken, and it doesn't even work for elemental skills. You can somewhat remedy the problem by linking your main damage dealer to Soul Thief, but this only applies to one skill - and you gimp your damage and utility by taking what feels to be a mandatory support gem. Last edited by Gwonam#5505 on Jan 23, 2025, 4:50:53 PM
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" I have 12+k hours in PoE 1 and a dozen of author's working builds. It is obvious that I am a noob and cannot figure out what so that mana would not be a problem in a specific case inherent in a specific situation. Mana leech... Available only for physical attacks. I am talking about spells. Their damage mainly depends on the level. In addition, totems were given as an example earlier. Mana flask... In its maximum splendor, it gives 800 mana in 2 seconds, without investing in nodes for flasks in the lower right part of the tree. This is enough in an average budget case. But if we are talking about a mana cost of 400 with at least 2 casts per second, then there is still a problem. And this problem does not exist for those who use the imbalance problem (builds through the archmage, builds that one-shot everything). The game recommends using utility skills, but for some reason they must be of a minimum level, in order to "follow the idea of the mana resource". The game interprets that mana is an important resource, but for the Caster archetype without an Archmage, this becomes a problem of the "lead airship" level. And what are the conclusions? Of course, anyone who does not agree with a happy player who has not encountered a problem will be a fool and an idiot who does not know how to play. And who is "in a hurry to change the game". If your gaming experience becomes worse because an unpopular archetype will have more prospects, it is surprising and alarming. And most importantly, the idea that many forget when entering this section of the forum. Feedback and suggestions are a place where everyone has the right and opportunity to express their personal opinion regarding something, and other forum participants SHOULD NOT try to convince him just because they think differently. They should not shut him up. insult, force to do something. my hideouts - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3228515
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I remembered the absurd situation regarding the fact that some utility skills, such as curses and marks, grow with mana cost much more than in effect. So why a high level gems, if they are mainly used at low level?
my hideouts - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3228515
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" Ok? can we focus on your post? " Spells can do Phys dmg too, maybe your build doesn't do phys dmg, we do not know cause u don't post more details about it... " The example had a gem lvl 19 vs a gem level 38.. I read that.. first one costs about 150 mana and the later around 900. " does it means that u can cast them twice, clear the screen and then have to wait until u can refill ur mana? What non-budget build makes u stop doing dps for 2 seconds each 1 second? Who would pay for such a build? How much mana does your build has? What about mana regen investments? " AFAIK Archmage makes your skills cost more the more mana u have adding damage as benefit. U do not want to use Archmage? " U can wait for a miracle update that fixes all your build problems, u can talk to us here so we can try and help u out and make the build better. Either way, no choices are foolish or idiotic. No one is "in a hurry" to change the game, cause we do not work at GGG. " Is it? Idk, this is going out of the topic... " No one can force anything through the forum posts, some act more aggressively against certain changes, none can shut anyone up and are not allowed to insult. If u have any of these problems, talk to the mods. About the "SHOULD NOT" part I disagree, not being able to try to convince others makes forum less engaging, since it is a great opportunity to learn, discuss and apply solutions for problems in the game. Remember that it also enables your post to be seen more often by new ppl so it gets a boost and attention that you surely want to have. Last edited by SteamSkullerR#7239 on Jan 24, 2025, 7:35:11 PM
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" In solving the problem I'm talking about, there are three incompatible aspects that need to be said in one sentence. Archmage is primarily lightning damage, which is not suitable for those who play another element, is not physical damage for the leech (although the leech for spells is only for life for Blood Mage). My build is Essence Drain. All damage is chaos. What is noteworthy is that it turned out that the gradual damage of this skill is not supported in the current version of the game, so that you can specialize only on it. As a result, up to 70% of the total damage on a single target is hit damage. And for this you need to spam the skill to compensate for the fact that this skill initially has very little dps. If you add Archmage to it (which will be very expensive and difficult in my case), lightning damage does not synergize with Wither and Despair. And then it's easier to take another skill and change the build entirely. Having invested in max mana and mana regen, I achieved only 250 mana regen, losing either 30% of damage or 30% of ES. Given the low DPS, the mana flask can runs out. Therefore, it became easier to gain 90% fire resistance and reduce the ignite effect (I spent the same number of points, but acquired not only an insufficient amount of mana regen, but defenses and the ability to run maps from the burning ground). And take Infernal Flame instead of mana. I need to put a totem, cast a curse, this is already half of the mana pool. Then 3 casts of ED and I am without mana. And this is with Inspiration. If you do not cast a skill and only hope for overtime, then the boss fight lasts 2-3 times longer, which does not help with resources. And it's not a problem for me to fight bosses for a long time (I would generally like their life to be increased relative to the life of ordinary mobs). It's precisely this exhaustion, when at the end you need to do nothing to wait for a piece of mana for one cast. And this is also a build that does at least some damage with one use of the skill and can afford to wait somehow. I'm afraid to imagine how things are with other casters who have invested more than me in the level of gems and cast speed without using manastack (unplayable i think). But it's not for nothing that Stormweaver is 50% of the ladder. In the end, what? The nodes for max life were removed from the tree so that you wouldn't have to take them on every life build and have a choice, but you need to take mana sustain instead. Only, I repeat. The costs for a good mana sustain are necessary only because of the high level of the gem. And I described this example in the very first message, that getting +1 lvl gives strength, to master which you need to be ready to spend 10-40 skill points and give up other useful suffixes in favor of mana regen. Give up other soul cores in favor of max mana. Otherwise, +levels will do more harm. my hideouts - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3228515
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