Charge removal and charge steal should be changed to just remove one charge

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Proximified#4760 wrote:

It's a build bricking mod. There's quite a few of them when rolling maps. Just like how you can't run reflect without immunity, reduced block chance as a retaliate skill, reduced auras as an aura scaler and so on. PoE is strongly built around trading. The idea here is that you can trade your maps that have x mods you can't run with someone elses y content that they can't run.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Kill it then.


Never had issues with endurance charge stealing.



Drain you 50% and cant recover is just as bad.


Kill the mob.


Cant ask the game to keep you 100% safe at all times, has to be something that challenges your character.

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Sjatar#1090 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Kill it then.


Never had issues with endurance charge stealing.



Drain you 50% and cant recover is just as bad.


Kill the mob.


Cant ask the game to keep you 100% safe at all times, has to be something that challenges your character.

No I am not asking to be safe all the time. What I am pointing out is a monster mod that punishes players way more then the average modifier. Which creates a unpredictable challenge increase that feels very jarring. This kind of mod is more suited as a map mod that you have control over, instead of being randomly given monsters.

My character specifically is a discharge character. So if I get hit once I cannot just kill the enemy anymore and almost all my defenses are gone.

If you are serious about the comment "Kill it then". It means no monster modifier does anything anymore as no mod is designed to interact with the player in any way. That is not a good approach to balance these things. You have to assume that the monster modifier will interact with the player. In this case it's a outlier for damage increase for the enemy.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

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Sjatar#1090 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Kill it then.


Never had issues with endurance charge stealing.



Drain you 50% and cant recover is just as bad.


Kill the mob.


Cant ask the game to keep you 100% safe at all times, has to be something that challenges your character.

No I am not asking to be safe all the time. What I am pointing out is a monster mod that punishes players way more then the average modifier. Which creates a unpredictable challenge increase that feels very jarring. This kind of mod is more suited as a map mod that you have control over, instead of being randomly given monsters.

My character specifically is a discharge character. So if I get hit once I cannot just kill the enemy anymore and almost all my defenses are gone.

If you are serious about the comment "Kill it then". It means no monster modifier does anything anymore as no mod is designed to interact with the player in any way. That is not a good approach to balance these things. You have to assume that the monster modifier will interact with the player. In this case it's a outlier for damage increase for the enemy.

Then your character is the problem.

You have to layer your defenses, I dont know why I have to explain this to HC player.

Endurance charges shouldn't be everything for your character. You should be fine with a rare or two, showing up randomly, and you having minimal issues with them, even if they take away your charges.

It will be short lived anyways, as you should ... kill rare mobs fine. Or your build is insanely bad.



Much like the cannot recover above 50% monster.


Its there so you cant just brain off through everything.


However,

you should have something like block after that, or max res, or spell suppress, or high life/armour, high ES, eva etc...



Something.



TLDR:
Just because your endurance charges are gone

well...

if you built your character correctly,

should NOT mean your character just falls over without them.


Edit: Yea just looked at your character in phrecia, and ... I am speechless.

TLDRx2: Ancestral Defiance is carrying your character. Would be dead in a normal league

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Sjatar#1090 wrote:

The calculations get a little muddy if we look at physical damage due how armour works. But when it comes to elemental damage. No matter if I have layered defences or not. The difference between having my endurance charges or not is 78% more damage taken.

What we should be discussing is if a mod on a blue monster should make you take 78% more damage or not. I think that is out of line compared to the average mod on monsters.

Any example using my character does not really take us closer to that point. It's a meme discharge build using mothers embrace to spawn worms to deal damage with herald of ash ^^ But there is a lot of characters that use endurance charges as a defensive layer. All of them (if they have 12 charges which I used as the example) take 78% more damage if they encounter this mod.

I'm simply arguing this is to much of a impact. It could be solved in multiple ways. The mod can be nerfed to remove one charge. It could be removed. The strength of endurance charges could be revised so that it's not as big of a damage increase if charges are removed etc.

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I'm not sure why you bring up my character specifically. It does feel you want to discredit me because my build is bad?

It's not like I just want to complain because I'm playing this character. I have had this opinion from playing many characters using endurance charges.

One of the worst cases is when I did a trauma stacker before we had ralakesh impatience. Where the character would kill itself instantly if my charges where removed. So to counter one single mod on enemies I had to get 3 grand spectrums for min end charges.

This character also had to counter cannot recover over half life by getting petrified blood. Also get curse immunity to not die from vulnerability and punishment.

I'm not new to making builds and my current character has it's weaknesses, it's not meant to be "good", it's interesting and a challenge to myself. So don't patronize me.

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Edit: You might also misunderstood what mod I'm talking about. It's not just rares that can get this mod. It's blue monsters as well. If one pack of blue monsters get a mod, all of the same kind will get the same mod. So if we have charge removal spark goats in the map. All the blue spark goats will get charge removal.

It's not a rare or two. It's sometimes the entire map. If this happens I do often just leave the map and go do another one.

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My character specifically is a discharge character. So if I get hit once I cannot just kill the enemy anymore and almost all my defenses are gone.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Then you need to build your character for this problem. Not ask the game to change.

Im sorry but this is just the reality of the situation:

You cannot frontload a single defense into your character, and then when said defense fails, think the game needs to change.

Thats what is happening here. You think the game is the problem here.



All 4 of my characters in settlers, my necro settlers summ, AND my phrecia character, all rely on endurance charges.


I have no problem with these mobs showing up. "Steals a charge" happens on rares or magic mobs its fine.

Why? I dont solely rely on endurance charges to keep my character alive.

And you are, attempting to argue right now, 100%, that it should be.

I, massively, disagree with you.


I didnt bring your character up, you did.

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My character specifically is a discharge character. So if I get hit once I cannot just kill the enemy anymore and almost all my defenses are gone.

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Sjatar#1090 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Then you need to build your character for this problem. Not ask the game to change.

Im sorry but this is just the reality of the situation:

You cannot frontload a single defense into your character, and then when said defense fails, think the game needs to change.

Thats what is happening here. You think the game is the problem here.



All 4 of my characters in settlers, my necro settlers summ, AND my phrecia character, all rely on endurance charges.


I have no problem with these mobs showing up. "Steals a charge" happens on rares or magic mobs its fine.

Why? I dont solely rely on endurance charges to keep my character alive.

And you are, attempting to argue right now, 100%, that it should be.

I, massively, disagree with you.


I didnt bring your character up, you did.

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My character specifically is a discharge character. So if I get hit once I cannot just kill the enemy anymore and almost all my defenses are gone.

I did bring it up but it's not the main point of my argument. I thought it added context to the thread. But the main point is:

That a single mod that represents 78% more damage taken is a outlier compared to the rest of the mod pool. It's a simple feedback thread tbh. I have a couple more talking about mods that I think is outliers. Like phys overwhelm (got changed), embezzler ghost (not changed), and old drought mod that removed all charges on hit (got changed), old nullifier mod (got changed).

I think the mod needs a look at. You don't think so and that's fine. I feel you are a bit to aggressive in your argumentation. It does not help convey your argument and just makes people defensive.

You could bring up counter points like build features that would counter the mod. Like ralakesh impatience or minimum endurance charges etc. This would give your argument more weight.