My Thoughts on "Your Thoughts" on the State of PoE

Disclaimer: I know that this is the General Forum for PoE. This topic relates to both PoE 1 and PoE 2.

TL;DR: If they aren't constructive, keep them to yourself.

I've been playing ARPGs for a long time. They are one of my favorite lifetime genres; over 2 decades and 10s of thousands of hours. Shoutout Champions of Norrath and BG:DA. I like building characters using in-game resources to overcome combat challenges and fulfill a power fantasy of sorts. I also thoroughly enjoy overcoming the challenge of difficult combat and complex game mechanics to solve (like building an effective character, etc.). Both of these things are important to the enjoyment of ARPGs imo.

Path of Exile 1 and 2 are separate games. They have posited 2 completely different goals to actualize: PoE 1 is primarily the complex problem solving and power fantasy fulfillment, whereas PoE 2 is more pursuant of the "overcoming the challenge of difficult combat encounters" goal.

If you are a power fantasy enjoyer and you find that PoE 2 fails to fulfill that gameplay element for you, do not disparage the game - the game is not made for you. Play PoE 1, which was made for you, and then disparage it on its forum.

The same applies to "The Vision" enjoyers - if you're fed up with PoE 1 and the roll-the-dice slot machine loot generator power fantasy gameplay, don't disparage that game - that game is not made for you. Complain about what you're upset about within the game that was made for you, PoE 2, on its respective forum and with outreach to devs.

Failure to do this will render both games ineffective in their growth, and I feel strongly that it will kill PoE 2 on arrival before it even materializes out of EA - whether that be through the eventual abandonment of development or the degeneration of the game into a higher-fidelity PoE 1 due to PoE 1 fan pressure.

If ANYONE at GGG would say ANTHING that made it clear that PoE 1 is still a priority - or just a small sign that ANYONE at GGG still cares about the game, I wouldn't even offer PoE 2 a single second of effort or thought.

PoE 1 is a game designed around seasonal play. "Just go play it" isn't as straightforward as some people think it is. While Phrecia did indeed add some cool stuff, we still find ourself in the "same league" as we did almost a year ago.

My problem isn't PoE1 or PoE2. My problem is GGG's unwillingness to do what they said they would; support both games. If GGG came out today and said "we're closing down PoE 1 servers", I would probably be more OK with it than this uncertain "wait until x, and then we'll see" situation.

I'll be constructive when GGG show some constructive plans for PoE1 :D

At first, it was PoE1 going to have a big graphical update with another campaign in addition to all the existing PoE1 goodness. Players were happy to support that.

But then, it was to be a separate game. It was fine upto this point although a bit dodgy that your support money wasn't going where you thought it was.

And finally, it was: sorry but your favourite game isn't going to have updates because of a completely unrelated another game.

And that's what making PoE1 players unhappy. They're raking in millions, just hire additional people to work on PoE2 and let PoE1 staff do their job.

Down the road, both games might be fine after a couple of years but the company just lost goodwill.

I didn't see anything about this vision on the Steam store page. I upgraded my supporter pack to the most expensive one at the end of season 1 based on the season 1 gameplay. What I see in season 2 is not what I paid to support, everything from season one was completely destroyed and this feels like a completely different game from what I paid to support and play. If this game is not for me, or the other 50-90% of players that don't like this, that's fine, I'd just like my money back to go play a game I actually want to play. I'd also like to see the Steam store page updated with a clearer "vision" of what it is this game is supposed to be, because patch 2.0 was a complete shock to me based on what I knew about this game after 500+ hours played season 1, in a bad way.

The only reason PoE 2 is in such horrendous shape is because all constructive criticism was drowned by toxic positivity due to streamers trying to secure their future income streams. Now that streamers are sharing their true feelings the game can finally heal. The future is still bright.

"

Lebigcheez#8190 wrote:

Disclaimer: I know that this is the General Forum for PoE. This topic relates to both PoE 1 and PoE 2.

TL;DR: If they aren't constructive, keep them to yourself.

I've been playing ARPGs for a long time. They are one of my favorite lifetime genres; over 2 decades and 10s of thousands of hours. Shoutout Champions of Norrath and BG:DA. I like building characters using in-game resources to overcome combat challenges and fulfill a power fantasy of sorts. I also thoroughly enjoy overcoming the challenge of difficult combat and complex game mechanics to solve (like building an effective character, etc.). Both of these things are important to the enjoyment of ARPGs imo.

Path of Exile 1 and 2 are separate games. They have posited 2 completely different goals to actualize: PoE 1 is primarily the complex problem solving and power fantasy fulfillment, whereas PoE 2 is more pursuant of the "overcoming the challenge of difficult combat encounters" goal.

If you are a power fantasy enjoyer and you find that PoE 2 fails to fulfill that gameplay element for you, do not disparage the game - the game is not made for you. Play PoE 1, which was made for you, and then disparage it on its forum.

The same applies to "The Vision" enjoyers - if you're fed up with PoE 1 and the roll-the-dice slot machine loot generator power fantasy gameplay, don't disparage that game - that game is not made for you. Complain about what you're upset about within the game that was made for you, PoE 2, on its respective forum and with outreach to devs.

Failure to do this will render both games ineffective in their growth, and I feel strongly that it will kill PoE 2 on arrival before it even materializes out of EA - whether that be through the eventual abandonment of development or the degeneration of the game into a higher-fidelity PoE 1 due to PoE 1 fan pressure.

These threads trying to shape other peoples' feedback are so astoundingly hypocritical it is insane.

You don't have an inside line to what is most effective and shaping GGG's decisions, and you don't have ownership over the direction of the game. The status quo of the garbage that PoE2 currently is does not intrinsically hold more value than what it was advertised as being or what it could be in the future.

So no. No, I will not stop disparaging the game, no I will not stop calling for it to change into what it was advertised as, no I will not stop advocating for what I want it to be. If PoE2 is dead on arrival, it is so because of the decisions of GGG not the noise from the community. If they make a game people want to play, people will play the game regardless of the forums.

The game is currently worthy of disparagement, and thus it will be disparaged. The idea that "constructive feedback" is more effective than disparagement and noise is observable and demonstrably false. It comes from a history of games trying to avoid negative press. Almost universally, games that receive widespread, systemic change or rebuild do so as a result of overwhelming negative feedback, not nice polite lists. I don't give a shit about constructive feedback, the game is currently a LONG way from the point where that kind of feedback is employable.

So to:dr; no. I don't think I will.

If the game is not made for me and it's supposed to be a completely different genre than PoE1 they should A) rename it and B) place something in big giant bold letters on the steam store page explaining this clearly. I want to see "This game might not be made for you, be quiet about it and go elsewhere if you don't want..." followed by a list of all of these things many people who paid a lot of money to support this game are complaining about and don't want. I'd also like a refund so I can spend it on other games, if this game is not made for me as you say. But since I didn't get a refund, I will continue to speak about what I paid for and I'm so extremely disappointed that limiting things to carefully constructed criticism in every sentence I write about it or being quiet is not going to happen. I think blanket refunds would quiet people down a lot.

I want variety and fun normal ARPG gameplay, which this game was in season 1 when they get people to spend more and more money on the work product they put out. Then they tore it all down after the supporter money came in. I don't want combos force on me in every build and every class, I don't want to actively parry, I don't want to hyper focus on the screen every hour of the game, I don't want to make teeny tiny advances in character power only to still feel like I'm underpowered at end game, I don't want slow sluggish slogging gameplay, I don't want to press 5 buttons for every single build, I want variety and a normal ARPG like what made PoE1 so popular. Why call this PoE2 if it's supposed to be a completely separate game? Why not call it "Pancakes" or "Panda Dance" if it's so different?

Send me a refund I'll gladly go play a game made for me if GGG does not want me to play this game that isn't made for me and doesn't want to hold on to the money I sent.

My 5 cents: the crazy cast loops you can make in PoE2 or so many more synergies makes me really want PoE2 to be like PoE1. Honestly, I don't even play PoE1 much because almost all the skills feel the same. PoE2 is special in that regard, and the potentials of power fantasy are so good, you want PoE1 power fantasy in PoE2.

This also tells me, maybe, they should have given PoE2 a new title like "Slug Of Exile" so people would not expect a similar power fantasy game like PoE1.

Unrelated, but I also wish the cast loops were allowed, just add some delay between "cast on" casts so that they don't crash the computer. I really like what The Bazaar did on a similar "charge" concept, although it is a completely unrelated game, infinte loops exists there and were intended in design.