Why Diablo has so many more players and revenue than POE1.

Marketing.

Ok ... next topic .. please stop comparing these on revenue please. Its like comparing apples and battleships. Blizzard spent probably 5x more on marketing than the game. Ask around the gaming world, most people have never heard of Path of exile.

Unless TenCent plans to spend 200m on marketing POE2, it will never eclipse D4 numbers. Despite that POE1 has been a great revenue earner for a small studio. The devs of POE2 should take more cues from POE1, less from Diablo, Elden Ring and the like.

By the way I dont want to hear about zooming in POE1. In SoK there are probably 50 meta builds that you can zoom. In POE2 there is currently ... ONE. So POE2 is basically Ruthless POE1 with a different gem system and shallower content but better graphics and noxiously long and tedious campaign.

GGG needs to do one thing ... only one thing ... to make the game great.

PLAY THEIR OWN PRODUCT. In the Zizaran interview it was obvious by the way they danced around the question that no one at GGG actually plays POE2. That is the BIGGEST problem.

Nope

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Nope

What nope?

They really shouldn't mass advertise during early access, especially not this launch either. People are waiting for 1.0 to release before coming in, that's when you ring the bells. They also said they expected a weaker launch than they did, but had a massive reception. They also said they expected lower numbers than in 0.1 and that also happened. So they under expect and over receive for now.

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PLAY THEIR OWN PRODUCT. In the Zizaran interview it was obvious by the way they danced around the question that no one at GGG actually plays POE2. That is the BIGGEST problem.

They do, but it's impossible to play test all possible combinations, which is why we are the glorified play testers. And playing their own product is how we got so much cut content from this release because they realized classes like huntress and druid were not viable before release and were sent back to the drawing board. And likely all other builds for that matter. Another issue that Jonathan mentioned is that despite having tuned the systems to be one way, in practice they don't work as intended sometimes. Like the comment he made about the loot drop system not being consistent despite the intended formula having higher drop rates.

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Gorbarr#2442 wrote:

They really shouldn't mass advertise during early access, especially not this launch either. People are waiting for 1.0 to release before coming in, that's when you ring the bells. They also said they expected a weaker launch than they did, but had a massive reception. They also said they expected lower numbers than in 0.1 and that also happened. So they under expect and over receive for now.

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PLAY THEIR OWN PRODUCT. In the Zizaran interview it was obvious by the way they danced around the question that no one at GGG actually plays POE2. That is the BIGGEST problem.

They do, but it's impossible to play test all possible combinations, which is why we are the glorified play testers. And playing their own product is how we got so much cut content from this release because they realized classes like huntress and druid were not viable before release and were sent back to the drawing board. And likely all other builds for that matter. Another issue that Jonathan mentioned is that despite having tuned the systems to be one way, in practice they don't work as intended sometimes. Like the comment he made about the loot drop system not being consistent despite the intended formula having higher drop rates.

No. Listen to the interview. Its obvious they don't because they danced around the question. If I asked you how long it took you to finish the campaign you would tell me instantly.

The already answered this back in .1

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

No. Listen to the interview. Its obvious they don't because they danced around the question. If I asked you how long it took you to finish the campaign you would tell me instantly.

To be fair, Mark plays the game. At least he obviously did in December when GGG had their holidays. When he was asked about map sustain in "0.1.0" you could clearly see that he did not understand the issue because he had a different experience and sustained maps without any problems, like everyone else who did understand what to do and did not die, BUT he investigated and found the issue for the ppl who could not sustain.

I am not so sure about Jonathan playing the game, besides some short, isolated testing of some things.
In the interview with "dropped frames" he said that he did not understand the complaints about "Huntress" and said that the ppl who he has seen don't "play her right". But he did not elaborate the slightest on how to play her the right way or what these ppl did wrong.

Furthermore, when your class is even in Acts, designed in a way that many ppl can play it "wrong" - you designed it wrong. This is not a case of "only noobs can't figure it out" and even if it would be - it's basically the tutorial where you want them not the fail on arrival.

Then the "Regal Orb" view is highly sus. It's not like you find tons of rares in the campaign, and it takes you 10 rares for shards to get 1 Regal Orb, thus ONE single try on a magic item to get nothing.
GGG always acts like they understand economy and efficiency, but disenchanting 10 rares for one try for a 3 mod rare is less efficient than selling the rares and trying to get something from a vendor or gamba.

If I want to "craft" one magic into a rare each Act, it takes me 60 rares and one magic item.
If I want to "craft" three magic items into rares each Act, it takes me 180 rares and 18 magic items.
Sure, shards and Regals can drop "raw", but we can look at our currency stash while progressing the campaign and even provide evidence with the pilfbla-ring that the drops aren't nearly enough.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Furthermore, when your class is even in Acts, designed in a way that many ppl can play it "wrong" - you designed it wrong. This is not a case of "only noobs can't figure it out" and even if it would be - it's basically the tutorial where you want them not the fail on arrival.

100% true. Skills you can "fail" at should be held for later tiers.. Every early tier class-starter-weapon skill choice should be "passibly okay" at worst...

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GGG always acts like they understand economy and efficiency, but disenchanting 10 rares for one try for a 3 mod rare is less efficient than selling the rares and trying to get something from a vendor or gamba.

Gambling before endgame is the worst thing to spend your money on. Absolutely abysmal stastical percentages of success.

When used correctly, the loot and currency are not an issue...(a) because you can do Act 1 entirely in Blues (i've done it multiple times in HC SSF to test), and (b) you are doing the crafting wrong. The goal is to get a 2-affix blue item that is *already* an upgrade. If you don't get this, you don't turn it into a rare, EVER. If you do get this.. use it, and if you have the currency, turn it into a rare because you are already using it! I only play SSF, and I quit my 88 Monk in 0.1 because everything was too EASY and BORING, not because I couldn't get loot. And I'm not alone.

THAT SAID... I think understanding how to use their crafting system is too hard for most people. It takes a very careful understanding of expected value and managing randomness. Almost like the skills of a poker player or a blackjack card counter, and this is really not reasonable. They need more deterministic crafting. Essences are dropping more, but this is really not good enough.

Add to all of this the fact that because all loot is RNG, some player is just going to get absolutel abysmal RNG rolls and get absolute junk. No currency, no drops, nothing.. they will think the game is impossible, and they will think everyone elses experiences are similar (they are not).

I started my journey of ARPGs with Diablo, loved D2 and had multiple top50 solo ranks in D3 HC to then find PoE and struggle my way through SC. Different game, different audience. I understand that it will never be as appealing to the masses, but I guess that's why we are in love with it.

Correct.

PoE1 is really great, just make new graphics and animation.

And it's obvious they never play the game that's why they try to copy Elden Ring in ARPG which cannot work.

Elden Ring: 10 monsters on location and a boss you must defeat

PoE: 500 monsters on location and a boss you must farm over and over

And yet they add "parry". Sure, let's parry a pack of 20 beyond monsters that just emerged. Oh, they have lightning spell that can't be parried. Too bad.