Path of Exile 2: Content Update Timeline

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

I'm not saying data needs to be "applicable for a new realm" - I'm saying [...] that data is corrupted by exploits and dupes that won't exist in a fresh league.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

mixed with new players who barely know what an orb of fusing does, the data becomes meaningless noise. How do you balance a mechanic when half your testers are steamrolling content and the other half are getting one-shot?

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

That's not punishment, that's quality control.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

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ForsesGIT#6499 wrote:

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

More data doesn't automatically mean better data when half of it comes from an environment with completely different power levels and economic conditions. Testing a mechanic that drops currency when Standard players are sitting on thousands of divines versus league players scraping together alchs is going to give you wildly skewed feedback.
And calling it "gas-lighting" is a bit dramatic, don't you think? It's just basic game design - you test in controlled environments first. Standard isn't some neglected stepchild, it's the stable version where your progress is safe from the inevitable league mechanic nerfs and reworks.
If you really want to test with your mirror-tier gear, nothing's stopping you from copying a character over when the league goes core. But asking for simultaneous implementation is basically asking GGG to balance around two completely different player power levels at once.

You're gas-ligthing. I have some points where you're completely wrong:
1. Not all the players on Standart have thousands of divines.
2. A bunch of players even don't know what is trade and will not use it for years, some of them players SSF. So, for those players fresh economy means nothing
3. Some of players just don't want to start fresh league because it's literally annoying to complete acts each time with no level items

So, taking away the new content for players who plays only standard is bad idea because it means that standard league will not see new conent for how much, six months?
As other guy said - players don't want your "protection", they want to play new content as other players do

Taking new content away from Standard players is bad for who?

The issue isn't about protecting Standard players - it's about getting useful feedback. When you have players with legacy gear that's 10x more powerful than anything available in league mixed with new players who barely know what an orb of fusing does, the data becomes meaningless noise. How do you balance a mechanic when half your testers are steamrolling content and the other half are getting one-shot?
And yeah, doing the campaign again sucks. We all know it. But that's a separate problem that needs fixing, not a reason to muddy the testing waters for new mechanics.
Six months without new content isn't ideal, but it's better than getting half-baked implementations that either trivialize the game for geared players or brick it for everyone else. Look what happened with Sanctum when it went core - completely different beast than the league version because the power levels were incompatible.
Standard gets the polished version. That's not punishment, that's quality control.

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

I'm not saying data needs to be "applicable for a new realm" - I'm saying [...] that data is corrupted by exploits and dupes that won't exist in a fresh league.

You're contradicting yourself. You absolutely believe that the only data with meaning is that which is applicable to a new league, specifically to its economy. Data isn't limited to economic permutation. More players give ZERO (0) fucks about a FTP dungeon crawler's "economy" than those that do. You're comming off like someone whose IRL livelyhood is dependant on this videogame's in-game trading.

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

mixed with new players who barely know what an orb of fusing does, the data becomes meaningless noise. How do you balance a mechanic when half your testers are steamrolling content and the other half are getting one-shot?

Exactly how are they "mixed" when its being logged on seperate realms? Do you think this data get interpreted blindly without any means to discern performance of gear/skill sets?
More importantly: if the content is meant to be balanced for Standard, data from Standard is always useful. It seems that since your economy argument is shot, you pivot to claiming GGG is too incompetent to interpret trends in their own game.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

That's not punishment, that's quality control.

More gas-lighting.

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ForsesGIT#6499 wrote:

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

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ForsesGIT#6499 wrote:

You're gas-ligthing. I have some points where you're completely wrong:
1. Not all the players on Standart have thousands of divines.
2. A bunch of players even don't know what is trade and will not use it for years, some of them players SSF. So, for those players fresh economy means nothing
3. Some of players just don't want to start fresh league because it's literally annoying to complete acts each time with no level items

So, taking away the new content for players who plays only standard is bad idea because it means that standard league will not see new conent for how much, six months?
As other guy said - players don't want your "protection", they want to play new content as other players do

Taking new content away from Standard players is bad for who?

The issue isn't about protecting Standard players - it's about getting useful feedback. When you have players with legacy gear that's 10x more powerful than anything available in league mixed with new players who barely know what an orb of fusing does, the data becomes meaningless noise. How do you balance a mechanic when half your testers are steamrolling content and the other half are getting one-shot?
And yeah, doing the campaign again sucks. We all know it. But that's a separate problem that needs fixing, not a reason to muddy the testing waters for new mechanics.
Six months without new content isn't ideal, but it's better than getting half-baked implementations that either trivialize the game for geared players or brick it for everyone else. Look what happened with Sanctum when it went core - completely different beast than the league version because the power levels were incompatible.
Standard gets the polished version. That's not punishment, that's quality control.

For you all players on standard have a 10x more powerful builds which is not, most of the players that have those builds - will be playing new league with fresh economy because that's the main reason for them to play POE.

Again, what if Standard players will not see new content even after 6 months, is it quality control, or how do you call it? Does Standard players saw Synthesis, or Sentinel, or Affliction, or Harvest without rework, does them saw Scourge or Necropolis?
Does reworked Synthesis or Affliction were more polished than they were on leage - they aren't, unless "polished" = nerfed to the ground.

What is your problem with it, I do not understand, is it problem if they get not polished version? Well, they get balance changes which weren't polished as well, so what?

You're just angorance and trying to find problem where there is not. Stop being so rude against people that want to have new content and play them on Standard with their 10x legacy gear, just give those players some fun or the game instantly became 10x worse and you'll be like pissed of that players have fun?
GGG don't even need to balance content for players on Standard for their builds, just give an option to chose will you interact with new content or not how it works for almost 99% of all league mechanics.

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

Right, so your solution is "just throw mechanics at Standard without balancing them"? That's exactly the kind of thinking that leads to broken implementations going core. You're proving my point about meaningful feedback - if GGG doesn't need to balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is worthless for development.

And no, most legacy gear owners don't automatically jump to leagues. Plenty stick around precisely because they want to keep using their broken toys. The fact that you think everyone with good gear migrates shows you don't understand the Standard playerbase.

Your examples of mechanics that never made it to Standard actually support my argument. Those were either too broken to implement properly or required complete reworks that made them unrecognizable. That's what happens when you design around two completely different power levels.

The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares. Either the content is trivial for geared players or impossible for normal ones.

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The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

Right, so your solution is "just throw mechanics at Standard without balancing them"? That's exactly the kind of thinking that leads to broken implementations going core. You're proving my point about meaningful feedback - if GGG doesn't need to balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is worthless for development.

And no, most legacy gear owners don't automatically jump to leagues. Plenty stick around precisely because they want to keep using their broken toys. The fact that you think everyone with good gear migrates shows you don't understand the Standard playerbase.

Your examples of mechanics that never made it to Standard actually support my argument. Those were either too broken to implement properly or required complete reworks that made them unrecognizable. That's what happens when you design around two completely different power levels.

The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares. Either the content is trivial for geared players or impossible for normal ones.

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Standard feedback is worthless for development.

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ForsesGIT#6499 wrote:

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Blooper#6330 wrote:

Right, so your solution is "just throw mechanics at Standard without balancing them"? That's exactly the kind of thinking that leads to broken implementations going core. You're proving my point about meaningful feedback - if GGG doesn't need to balance for Standard, then Standard feedback is worthless for development.

And no, most legacy gear owners don't automatically jump to leagues. Plenty stick around precisely because they want to keep using their broken toys. The fact that you think everyone with good gear migrates shows you don't understand the Standard playerbase.

Your examples of mechanics that never made it to Standard actually support my argument. Those were either too broken to implement properly or required complete reworks that made them unrecognizable. That's what happens when you design around two completely different power levels.

The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares. Either the content is trivial for geared players or impossible for normal ones.

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The "just make it optional" approach sounds nice until you realize it fragments the playerbase and creates balance nightmares

It's how POE mechanics works, you could ignore breach and stronbgoxes, it's not a balance nightmare.
Also, I would tell s secret for you: every mechanic fragment the playerbase because each players like different things. It's completely normal. You've bring Sanctum as an example of "polished" league, is it not split the playerbase? You've just prove my point

Naaah, you've just ignorant and don't know how POE works.
I don't know from where did you find that GGG listening Standard players feedback, that's even sound like a joke, but if they are - it's not actually visible because they have plenty of times to revert 0.2 balance changes which broke builds for Standard players.
Well, your point of view that Standard players just dont deserved new content for 6+ months and in some cases they don't deserve it at all. I got it

But, please, when players who plays Standard asking for new content do not gas-light them with "You don't understand, it's a protection, we don't want that you got negative player experience, you'll get content polished", it's just rude.

P.S. Are you forgot you position that game is in EA. In EA you're expect to see major issues, balance issues, connection issues am I wrong? Or you like to swap position for different topics? :)